Episode 6 - Eliot Lewis (Hall & Oates/Average White Band) & Herman Matthews (Tower of Power/Kenny Loggins/Tom Jones/Timothy B. Schmit)

This episode John and Alan are joined by Eliot Lewis (Hall & Oates / Average White Band) and Herman Matthews (Tower of Power / Kenny Loggins / Tom Jones / Bob James). Eliot talks about working on Live From Daryl's House and some of the guests he's played with. Herman talks about drinking with Tom Jones and hearing Elvis stories until the sun comes up. Eliot talks about jamming with Peter Frampton at age 12 and playing at the White House, and Herman shares some experiences with Stevie Wonder, Richard Marx, and taking the place of David Garabaldi without trying to take the place of David Garabaldi. Eliot shares a story about playing with Booker T, and both of them discuss working with Kenny Loggins. We close out with a new segment - Soft Pass Trivia.

Eliot's Website
Herman's Website
Eliot with Average White Band
Eliot with Hall & Oates
Herman with Tom Jones
Herman with Tower of Power (Drum View) 

Transcript

spk_0:   0:07
Welcome to Soft Pass, hosted by John Michaels, a 30 year veteran tour manager and sound engineer for some of entertainment's most well known touring acts. And Alan Tillis, a mild mannered writer and entertainment lawyer by day and a rowdy musician by night, join as they sit down with songwriters, musicians, producers, managers and touring professionals. Talk about what really goes on behind the scenes in the studios, offices and on stage in the entertainment industry. Welcome to another edition of Soft Fast. My name is John Michaels. Joining Me is my co host, Alain Tillis and Alan. This month we have a really cool show for everyone. Don't think I'm so excited. I love these guys so much this month we have to industry hot shots. Our first guest is Eliot Lewis, who's played with too many people to really mention. He worked on the live from Daryl's house, Siri's and played with a ton of people there. But his full time gig when he's not writing or working on promoting his solo albums is playing keys with Hall and Oates. And from 89 to 2002 he also played with average white band Really everything but drums, it seems like. But Elliot's escapades in the music industry reach much further than those few things,

spk_1:   1:21
and we'll get into that, and I'm sure there's some great stories in there as well. Elliott, Welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

spk_0:   1:28
Alright, and our other guest is drummer Herman Matthews, another well known hired gun who's played with some of music's all time greats, including Stevie Wonder, Elton John, Celine Dion, Luther Vandross and many others. He currently plays with Tower of Power, but he's still just a drummer from Texas and an all around great guy, Herman. Welcome to the

spk_2:   1:47
show. Thank you for having me. How you good.

spk_0:   1:50
Then we're going to start out this show with something new. It's a segment called Name One Thing, and it's a really simple game used to break the ice with the guests. So we'll start with Elliot and then we'll go to Herman. Here's the question. Name one thing now this could be a food item or gear something personal. Name one thing that you absolutely have tohave the gig and why, like Michael Bland needs a bag of Tootsie Pops when he's playing. What do you guys

spk_1:   2:17
need? Elliott? Good monitors. Everything else and I see.

spk_0:   2:24
Well, I figured you'd be on in years at this point.

spk_1:   2:27
I am, actually, but only reach a week. Most of my career is always just have been normal monitors, though. It's it's a new transition for me to be on. The years only been about two years for me or something like that. But they're cool. I like him. I don't think I could live with Adam now. At our stage, volume is pretty heavy duties. So they were a necessity.

spk_0:   2:46
Herman, what do you absolutely have to have at the gig

spk_2:   2:48
and icy cold, sugar free Red Bull?

spk_0:   2:51
Okay, your tack rounds that on the list. He puts that up there every time.

spk_2:   2:55
Exactly. When I'm starting out there, it's right there. And then midway through, I have a shot of tequila. So I

spk_3:   3:02
gotta have a Diet Coke. So my throat is okay to sing I that I clear my throat out during the course of the night.

spk_2:   3:08
You know, I've heard that I've heard that coke and potato chips. It gets all the credit.

spk_3:   3:13
I don't know if you can hear Herman, since we're not the same location. But what am I chewing on right now?

spk_2:   3:20
Sounds like peanut brittle.

spk_3:   3:21
That's it. I've got my little Herman's peanut brittle that I'm sitting here eating while we're doing this show.

spk_2:   3:28
Oh, my goodness. A

spk_0:   3:29
zlotys. We're talking about food, Herman. I gotta ask you one thing. As I was doing research for the show, I was on your website and I watched a little piece that you called a drizzle on. I have two questions about this. You know, you figured that the video would have stopped the questions, but here they come. Okay, Number one. Do you often prepare food with a scarf on? Or was this just a cove it thing too? If we're massaging the leaves after the drizzle, how much of the drizzle is transferred to your hand and is there like a quantified measurement, like is like a Scotia of the drizzle may end up on your hands. You know, for those who want to get the full drizzle

spk_2:   4:08
I had a scarf on. Yeah, you're Kiyota scarf. Odd. It was little Larry. Was it on my head or my around my neck noted

spk_0:   4:14
I was around you

spk_2:   4:15
down. Okay. Okay. No, I think I was just I don't know what that was all about, but, uh, as far as the drizzle is concerned, I just want something toe wet, the lead, that's really all. And then after that, I try and wash my hands, and that's all I put on. And then I season it with salt and pepper

spk_0:   4:31
salad lessons from Herman Matthews.

spk_2:   4:33
That's really I mean, I just want a massage leaves with some extra virgin olive oil. I mean, I don't use any other dressing that at all. I just use that. That's it.

spk_3:   4:42
Didn't know this was gonna be a cooking show. Right way.

spk_0:   4:47
Touch all bases here, Elliot. Walk us through what it's like to do a gig at the White House.

spk_1:   4:51
Oh, my God. Ah, first question. Yeah, it's pretty funny. You should bring that up. That I mean, what can I say? It was unbelievable experience. I'm so happy personally that it happened when it did. We got invited to do the governor. Paul. We pretty much assumed that, of course, Darrelle and John, we're gonna meet Obama and Michelle, and we didn't know if he would actually meet him. We knew we were gonna perform for him. The day before we did the show. We got the message that he insisted on meeting everybody band and the crew, which which I was pretty amazing. So go through all the security protocol that you have to go through to get in. And, you know, they put you in a room and we get lined up. You know, you walk into this room and there's Obama with his hand out going pay. Elliott, welcome to the White House. Thank you so much for coming on. And it just like mine blowing and Michelle was like almost basically hugging are really genuinely happy to have us there. It was just a beautiful, beautiful experience. We did the show. It was just like a four song show, like, 20 or 25 minutes. Are we just share a smile? We think we did. You make my dreams it no can do. And whatever else we maybe she's gone at the end of the four stones. You know, it was planned where a bomb was going to come up in bank us and that was going to be hit. And he was like Ah, you gotta play some more, you gat waste of or so to see those two in the front row just singing every song, too. I mean, they were holding each other and they were singing that we're really in the moment.

spk_0:   6:28
So was it stiff? Was it everybody seated? Or were they dancing or what was the scene?

spk_1:   6:33
Everybody was seen it. It was just like a governor's ball. So there were some governors there, and it's in that room that we've seen a lot of musicians perform at over the years. Um, I forget what that room was called, but it was, you know, there was only probably I'm guessing 50 or 60 people there in a lot of security. It wasn't that up tight. It was pretty loose because of President Obama's vibe. And you tells they were really into it and made it like, OK, let's This is a little big. So it was very cool. And then afterward, Biden came up and he was like hugging everybody. And it was like they tell you, don't do selfies. You don't try to selfies with it. So of course we respect that, and Joe Biden's going,

spk_2:   7:13
Where's your phone. Let's do some selfies. What

spk_0:   7:18
was the hospitality like? Did they put you in a green room and stuff to give you, like, little with some drinks? And,

spk_1:   7:23
um, no, it wasn't like a green room. I mean, they put us in God, I shouldn't know the name of the room. I mean, we've seen all the presidents in this room, and we were there before we went in to do the show s. Oh, there wasn't a green room per se where they have drinks and stuff. You know, that was sort of all the before and

spk_3:   7:42
the prize your past background check to.

spk_1:   7:44
Yeah, right. Luckily, but no. Was fantastic. Definitely a highlight. One of the highlights of my career, for sure.

spk_0:   7:51
Did you have the moment where you're you know, you're in the middle of a song and you're just kind of taken it in, and you just have that moment where you're like, I can't even believe this.

spk_1:   8:00
Yes. Yeah. Like definitely an out of body experience. I've had those a couple of times in my career. The they're pretty. Any reasoning? They never cease to amaze me.

spk_3:   8:10
I got imagine some of the live from Daryl's house. Episodes air the same because you're playing with legends like Krieger and Manzarek and and Smokey Robinson. That's got to be an out of body experience.

spk_1:   8:24
Yeah.

spk_0:   8:25
What was that? Like getting a call from T bone 24 hours ahead of time saying, hey. Ah, we need a bass player.

spk_1:   8:32
Well, you know that three. A little bit of that was exactly right. That was still pretty early on in the whole show. That was maybe four years into it. I think we did nine years total. So that was 53 years into the episodes, and that was going to be the one show I wasn't gonna play on because they were going to do it in L. A. Which they did. They just didn't need me. A T Bone was playing guitar by that time, be a transition to Qatar, And they assumed that Ray Manzarek was gonna play, you know, keyboard based, like, I guess he did in the doors the night before that the shoot was gonna happen. So I was like, Oh, do your thing. I would I didn't really care about not doing this particular episode. I mean, I would have loved to, but But I'm in my little stone studio and I get a call at about nine a tonight, and it's t bone and T bones that a l we screwed up, man. Can you learn five door songs and beyond the 7 a.m. flight to play with hanging up the phone with T bone within, like, five seconds? I had my base in this in my room was that loading door songs?

spk_0:   9:39
Ah, what a cool experience, then. I mean, speaking of TV shows, Herman, during the nineties you got to either play with or watch from the side some of the most quality names in hip hop. I'm talking like a tribe called Quest Diggle Planets Pete Rock Nice and smooth Gang Starr Easy. P E. Joe DISY was on Park was on. I mean, who was the talent booker for that showman?

spk_2:   10:05
Like I know

spk_0:   10:07
some of the people they had Oh, my goodness. It was like cutting edge. How old was J. Lo when she started on the second season?

spk_3:   10:14
We're talking about in living color.

spk_2:   10:15
Yeah, Yeah, but I didn't put that down, You know, they only had a live van for one episode. Are you serious? That was it. They were going to give it a try. They did the live band. And it was a great band. And it was a great episode. But they did it only for one show. So, to be honest with you, I did see J. Lo and that was wonderful. But that was it, man. That was it. Who else is in the band? Oh, wow way, Lindsay. Keyboard player. Fredi Washington on base. Well, I think it was Paul Jackson Jr on guitar. Paul Jackson Jr. Our rate fuller. I can't remember. It was a smoking ban. We did like a day of getting it together and then went in and played the show. And that was really that was

spk_0:   10:58
did they never brought you back for other stuff.

spk_2:   11:01
And soon after the show ended, right? Yeah, that's right. Right. It was a hell, Mary, that try and do something different.

spk_0:   11:06
Looking back on that show. I mean, I can't believe it was one of those family guy things where it ran and it just went out, but that you look back now and see who was in that show and what they had on it. Just mind blowing. Did you ever get to talk to Jim Carey? Was is he is not Suzie was in that documentary. I just saw

spk_2:   11:24
that I did not The way they did everything they did our segment. And then they did everything else. So no, we weren't around anyone. We're pretty isolated.

spk_0:   11:33
So it's just something cool to put on your resume.

spk_2:   11:36
Well, I did it and I did it mainly because I played with those guys and I went, Oh, man, I gotta let somebody know.

spk_3:   11:43
But the breadth of people that you've played with stylistically is just so amazingly broad. Don mentioned Stevie Wonder, but Celine Dion, Turtle Crow, Body rate

spk_0:   11:56
low Bob James.

spk_2:   11:58
Oh, yeah, I told by James I think I did 2.5 years that Bob James, which was an interesting story, how I got that gig. I moved to L. A. Mid 88 was working with Kirk Whalum. After working in Houston and working in 6 to 7 nights a week in one of the top bands, the oil all fell out of Texas. We went from playing the hot spots in Houston to playing the holiday ends and, you know, like, an hour away from town. Sugarland? Yeah. You know, Baytown, then that kind of thing. So literally driving home one night, I just said, you know, what am I doing? I'm gonna move to L. A. And then three days later, I get a phone call from Kirk Whalum. Who's, you know, Kirk Whalum is I'm assuming, right? Yeah, sure. So Kirk calls up. How you doing? And in short, just says I want you to be in my band is just what the thing is you're gonna have to move to l. A. And so I said, Well, can I think about it? He said Sure. And I went OK, let's do it. That was three days after me making the decision to get out of Houston. So now I'm playing with Kirk Whalum. I think you know I'm into it for a couple of weeks and I'm moving to L. A. The second and third night. I'm in L. A. I'm playing the baked potato with Kirk Wales, and the place is packed with the four shows, you know, sold out the percussionist dot Gibbs. Leonard Gibbs is in the audience. Bob James is looking for a drummer, and Kirk Whalum is letting Bob know that Well, my drummer would be interested. Dot Gibbs is Carl and Bob Sand him, and I just heard this drummer. He will be great for the game. And so Bob is thinking, is two different guys that it was me. I've got my next two or three gigs touring gigs After that. Kenny Loggins. I got an audition with Al Jarreau all from those two nights at the big potato.

spk_0:   13:51
See, I told you, Alan, you just moved to L. A. And you fall upwards. That's how it works. Something happens.

spk_3:   13:58
Dinner approach these gigs differently when you're playing with Kirk vs Carole King versus Tom Jones. I mean, how do you approach those different genres differently for each?

spk_2:   14:12
I get that question all the time because literally my resume playing with Tower of Power to playing with Theresa James and the rhythm trams I've been playing the Texas Blues e swinging strain, a note country rock kind of thing to playing, you know, 16. No funk with Tower or when I'm playing with Timothy B. Schmit and playing all the Eagles stuff. It's not that I'm trying to be the best drummer that I could be. I'm trying to be the best musician that I could be next. Well put. So it's not about me. It's just about laying two and four down, maybe adjusting to feel a little bit. And that's really about it. It's like that saying When people say, Hey, man, I want you to play funkier Well, a lot of drummers, Plame or well, I just play less and then that's funky.

spk_3:   15:00
Every time I've seen you play with such a variety of folks is that there's never too much Herman. Never.

spk_2:   15:07
This is a deal. I grew up playing two records in the basement, you know, put the records on and I would play to all of that stuff. I never heard over playing or I never heard drum solos. My mom's taste was the whole Motown Stax, Billy Thing

spk_0:   15:23
Gamble in Hove,

spk_2:   15:24
right, right, right. And she loved Charley Pride, my dad, my uncles. They were, like, all sliding the family stone more of the funkier psychedelic thing. So I mean, all of that stuff is in my house.

spk_0:   15:35
Well, you were listening to those records and playing with those records. Elliott was playing with Peter Frampton at age 12. Yeah. Did you Did you understand how heavy that was while it was happening? Or is that something you reflect on now and just go? Wow.

spk_1:   15:53
I knew it was pretty heavy, but when I played with him at that point, I was 14 years old. Well, it was just before the live record. Frampton comes alive, came out there was right at that moment where everything exploded for him. A winner the I had, you know, two older brothers that had brought me up on humble pie, then his solo stuff. So I was well acquainted with what he was doing and how great he was. My friend's father became his promotion man at A and M Records. He came over to the house one day with his wife or girlfriend. At that point, Penny and they spent the whole afternoon at the house. And Kevin, when I had our stuff set up one of the rooms because we literally would be m and play every day for four or five hours, and we went down and flavored. Peter, it was pretty awesome. But not only that, that told period of my life around 13 14 15 or even earlier through this guy was me going to Madison Square Garden every week. I live in Connecticut. They were in New York, so his son and I would go into New York and see either Peter Frampton or the Who are Elton John. But we would go back and meet them, too. That's great, is a pretty incredible way to grow up. You know, when you want to play music for the risk of your life, that would legendary band Hartman. Well, Dan came a little bit later, actually, much later. My first real big concert was at Madison Square Garden, seen Alice Cooper, for instance through this friend of mine, and and met him so that completely like changed my world forever. Like pinnacle of my career was always gonna be. If I could play Madison Square Garden, I can die now. I

spk_0:   17:29
have a question about the stuff you did with Dan Hartman, though. Yeah, he's if people don't know. He wrote Free ride, and I can dream about you and a bunch of others

spk_1:   17:37
here.

spk_0:   17:37
You guys did some work for Joe Cocker and Tina Turner I think. And then you went on tow hook a publishing deal with Sony? Yeah, and then you were kind of on your way, so to speak. But what was that experience? Like writing both for someone other than yourself and with someone else. Because now you're like a self contained songwriter and you play a multi instruments and record everything on your own. Was there stuff that happened early on where you said to yourself, Well, I'm gonna have to do this on

spk_2:   18:03
my own.

spk_1:   18:04
Yes, that's exactly the way it happened. The thing with Dan made second or impact on me that my brother was working for a booking agency and he was looking average weight. And he also knew Dan. So somehow I think he got my demo tapes that I was making at the time to Dan and Dan said, Hey, I had used him for some of my sessions. I'm always looking for somebody. It was really, really into the whole technology thing at that point in the eighties, when the technology just exploded with since and samplers and sequencers they started their head first into that whole thing. Dan basically hired me to program and play on a lot of this stuff. And so one of the Tina Turner hits simply the best in the Joe Cocker record and a No no Hendricks from a Pointer Sisters and a couple other things. I mean, I didn't play on the James Brown record that he was making a living in America. I think it was basically Dan let me just kind of just stand over his shoulder and watch. What he does is the songwriter and as a producer, so that completely just changed my world and it gave me the information and the confidence that I was looking forward to sort of make my own way into the business. Really, At that point, that's all I wanted to do. It kind of had given up on playing live and being in a band. I was just solely focused on being a songwriter and producer. The information that Dan gave me was amazing and he became a really close friend. We went out to dinner all the time and he basically took me under his wing, which was amazing because at that point I had no track record, you know, hadn't worked with really anybody and he had his choice of all these amazing New York session musicians.

spk_3:   19:40
And is that what alleged to aftershock with a WB?

spk_1:   19:43
Yeah, Like I said, my brother was working for a booking agency and he also passed along one of my demos toe allegory. We got together, basically, just the songwriters. Now, I had just find first publishing deal with Sony. The average white band were disbanded at this point. This was probably around 87. I think they disbanded in, like, 83. And, you know, and then I met Alan. We started writing songs together. We probably wrote, I don't know, close to 100 songs over the course of a couple of years until they decided to make it sort of a comeback record and bring me into that. And that was like in 89 I think, and that all of a sudden I found myself in a band

spk_3:   20:27
question. I've been dying to ask both U N Herman, both of you stepped into in separate bands Really big shoes. Yeah, I'm really curious to know what kind of positive and negative reactions you guys got from the various fans of each band.

spk_2:   20:46
Well, first off earlier, you were in a WB when Pete Abbott was playing drums, right? I

spk_1:   20:50
was, Yeah. When average weapons started back up and we did shows with Tower, you were the drummer. Oh, you absolutely made a mark on me. And I started as a drummer. I'm a drummer originally so, and I've been blessed to work with a lot of great drummers. Aiken, say, honestly, that you made an unbelievable mark on me as a drummer. I thought your drumming abilities work. Unbelievable.

spk_2:   21:12
I was going to say the same thing when I heard you with a WB when we had those opportunities to play together, which I guess we're more often than not. Yeah. I mean, a WB had two hits, and you guys will come on first and get everyone up on their feet and everyone is just shouting and having a great time. And I mean, the band was bumping. You guys were kicking butt, and then Tom, what would come out and just knock everybody out? This is a great combination. Totally. But yeah, to fill the shoes of David Garibaldi. Now, the advantage that I had was that David hadn't been in a band for a lot of years. Ah, whole lot of years. I mean, you know, I came in replacing rest McKennitt, right, Which The interesting thing, Because when I was asked to be in the band, they wanted me to start January of 94. And I couldn't start because I was working up until March. And so they waited. The first thing that I did with Tower Power was the sold out record. So I was in the studio with them first. And then after that, they had a gig, and I'm turning to them saying, Well, when are we going to rehearse? And they looked at me as if I had eggs or something on my face and said, We're not rehearsing. So I had to go and write out all of that stuff that rust McKinnon that played in order to just get on track with them. So now your question about the feedback from the fans I would get everything from man, you know, this drummer is great. Is bringing the band back to what it originally waas to. Who is this guy thinking that? He says, David Garibaldi, Who is this guy who thinks he's he sounds like David Garibaldi. And not that I was trying to play like David because no one does play like David. My thing was, I was just honoring the parts that would play from the records that grew up.

spk_0:   22:59
You're just trying to do the songs justice,

spk_2:   23:01
That's it. You

spk_0:   23:02
lay back, though. And if you listen to that horn section, it seems like David would almost push the pocket where you lay back. So how do you acclamation to dealing with that with no rehearsal?

spk_2:   23:13
Well, he'd like. Well, that was a thing. I almost felt like I did the band a disservice from me hanging on the bottom of the B as much as I did. When I left the band and I went back and I heard David with the van rehearsing, I was like, Oh, yeah, that's right. They lean forward, you know, to the point where it uncomfortable to me since then, You know, when David I think David had double hip replacement surgery, but he was out for a year, so I went back and I subbed for him for a year, and also David got hit by train. If he didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, and I suck for him for a year then. So my thing is, since it's not really in my Constitution to leaning forward, I just counted the tunes off faster. I That was about how I can line it up with the grid and not think about the back end of the beat so much. I just kind of sat on it and stayed there.

spk_0:   24:05
What about you, Elliott? Did you get a lot of guff from the fans?

spk_1:   24:08
You know, it's so weird to me that I even fell into that role. It was something I never set out to do that point my life. My focus was on being a songwriter, producer, engineer, kind of guy. And then I worked with these guys on their comeback record. They books, um, shows and all of a sudden in the band, I'm going old. Mrs. Originally what I wanted to do, Then it became okay. Well, you're going to sort of take the place of Hammer Stewart. We're going to sing his parts and play the base where he did. And it was sort of natural for me to do, because at that point in my life. Anyway, I had a pretty high range in my falsetto, like it's sort of get my head around trying to mimic or try to cop his feel a little bit. He was a very, very unique sing or nobody sounded like him. So I knew I could never really duplicate him. It was gonna have to be my own version of it. I felt like at that point that I was pretty well accepted by their fans. I think they were just happy to have the band back.

spk_0:   25:05
This is before Social Media, though also totally. So you didn't have the direct access to that,

spk_1:   25:10
right? Right. I don't think people at the point would come up and go, Yo, dude, you're not You don't sound anything like, you know, they were pretty courteous, and we need to be be came back. They had to climb up again, you know, its third small. They had a smaller booking agency and it had to grow naturally. One funny little story, though. It was still so new to me. You know, I knew obviously some of their hits, but one of the first shows we did we played in Washington D C And for whatever reason, now, I wouldn't have known this. But our for some reason omitted schoolboy crush way have to learn there for average white band to play in d. C and not do schoolboy crush. Holy day was it was a mistake. Oh, yeah. Still, they quickly realized that they better have that in the show. Quickly. The you were not happy and that actually became one of my favorite songs to play just because the pocket in the group and that is just so deep.

spk_3:   26:11
We didn't you stick some OJ's in there playing that solo.

spk_2:   26:14
Yes, I did. You got

spk_1:   26:15
my God. I can't believe if you remember that. Yeah, I think I threw a little money money money in there? Yeah, exactly.

spk_2:   26:23
I love that. Herman, What did you

spk_0:   26:25
do with Stevie Wonder? Did you record or did you tour? What do you do?

spk_2:   26:29
I played a handful of shows with him. I think four shows It was the Nelson Mandela tour. But Nelson Mandela came to United States. He would speak, and then afterwards, Stevie will go on and play which, you know, game Nelson Mandela. An opportunity to get out of the arena,

spk_0:   26:45
something I know about Stevie. So if those gigs did he jump up on your kid because I know he likes to play Drum.

spk_2:   26:51
He didn't do that. We were doing some new material, and also we were working out. That was the first time I ever used in ears. It was like, really early on. I wasn't so much worried about the 70,000 people that were out there. I was worried about that little one individual playing keyboards. We also didn't do all of the hits that I wanted to play with him, but it was nice what we did.

spk_1:   27:11
Did you not play superstition?

spk_2:   27:13
We didn't do that. And I got to say we did it with a proper drum intro on it as well. I was happy about that.

spk_0:   27:19
Both of you guys have had to step in all kinds of musical situations as hired guns and working with other people, sometimes with very little notice like we were talking about with Elliott, Have there ever been times where you just you do all this prep and the gig turns out to be just totally different than what you had envisioned, and it's just nerve wracking is there one that sticks out more than the rest?

spk_1:   27:42
There's been a few situation that you have to learn stuff on the fly very quickly and honestly in the Hall and Oates world that I've been in for quite a while now. When I entered into it, I never, ever expected to be a keyboard player, sort of on the level of the keyboard players that they had when they will ask me eventually to be in the band were position that was open was the King word position. So I said, Of course, we'll take it by do play keys, but it's not something I set out to do. There have been some moments, but not a lot. Probably. Herman has probably experienced more than I have because I've been in this one's situation. But in that situation in your life, in Daryl's house, there was one band Early on, I think they were called Company of Thieves. Something like that. I'm not sure there even still around, but they were good. There were duo very, very musical, and we had already probably done 10 shows by then, so we were kind of on a roll. But their music was so not ordinary in the arrangement sense. Normally, songs have intros. They have a verse chorus, maybe a B section Ah, bridge. Their songs sort of didn't have that form to it. So when you listen to them, you thought wow, they're pretty easy. But then the arrangements all the normal four. And that's happened a couple of times, actually. Daughtry was another one who whose music didn't necessarily follow a lot of the arrangement forms that we sort of get used to. You know what I mean? Herman?

spk_2:   29:16
Yes. With me when I would get a call like that. I always like to be prepared. So they send me, say the music or the MP threes are a recording of the stuff. I write everything out. Yeah, I write everything out. So that we will start from is what they're used to rebut. What happens usually is that yes, that's the way they did it in the studio. Now they've been playing it live. It's totally different, you know? So it's got a

spk_0:   29:42
new intro. Got a new Outro extended bridge

spk_2:   29:46
and sometimes even a new field. Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of weird in that way. Yeah, I've stepped in it many times, but, you know, like Elliott said, I'm having a good time

spk_1:   29:56
for me, you know, a big, perfectly honest I don't read music. So for me was always having to rely on my ear so early on, especially the life in your own house, you We'd be working with Smokey Robinson one show, and then it would be something wrapped and that it would be something country. And that would be something already being Iraq. So I didn't wanna have to look down a chart. I would make my notes in my sort of guidelines. I was the guy in the band for a while that just literally memorized everything. It helped my ear a lot. Course you have to, you know, make cheat sheets. But, like, I'm not reading notation, I just I don't read music. So it was a good thing it was a blessing in a curse in some ways.

spk_2:   30:38
For me, I try to read the music as if I'm playing it by ear. We understand what I'm saying. I wanted to be is comfortable, like you know, I'm there in the moment yet I'm going to hit the 16th note hit that's gonna come up at the beginning of the bridge. You know,

spk_3:   30:51
in certain people, crazy fans like May right. We're expecting to hear that particular riff. We're expecting the chorus to sound this certain way, and then perhaps you do the solo section your way a little bit differently, but at core riffs, if you will, that Oh yeah, that's supposed to be there,

spk_1:   31:13
right

spk_2:   31:14
for me, playing with Tower, the intro to Squid Cakes or the intro to those iconic drum fills that come in. I have to do that, although David Garibaldi, who's back with the band now he never does. I mean, he's never doing it, but I always felt like that I had two. That's a

spk_1:   31:33
good thing, though. You're just respecting what was there to begin with? That's probably what the fans really want,

spk_2:   31:39
except for the one guy who thinks, Who is that guy? A pair of the things he's Ah, David Hare Bob. I try to with every band that I play with. I consider it like you read the book, if you will, or you're listening to a certain kind of music and I try and respect that music and play it in that field, you know, even doing drum fills. They have to be in the same language that say the book is in yet I'm not gonna go in there and do that Inverted pear little that kicks off with a high ed foot bounce off the cow bell. Nothing but net lick in a song that Timothy B. Schmit is singing. Yeah, Yeah, isn't I didn't. It was never

spk_3:   32:17
a proud daddy moment that you're responsible for, though, you know, you talked about your first album with Tower was sold out and you know the song sold out You're the one that counts it off on direct

spk_2:   32:31
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

spk_3:   32:33
I get this record and my daughter and my younger daughter is not very old at that points. Probably five years old, right? Slip it in the CD player in the car and we play that first track. Sold out. Get end of the track and she goes, Daddy, play that again.

spk_2:   32:48
Uh, love it. I

spk_3:   32:52
got her. I got her. She's all tower. That's

spk_1:   32:55
great. That kind of grooving Solis. So infectious. I think it partners everybody at any age. You can put that kind of music and any environment, and people react to it.

spk_0:   33:06
They talk about how songs are timeless, and a lot of that's reflecting to the words of the lyrics of the song. But I think what you're touching on there is timeless music. It's just good.

spk_1:   33:16
It's also very reliant on rhythm and rhythm moves, people and so much of tower powers. Music, for example, is so about the rhythm. That's the essence of soul and funk, and it's it really all comes down. The the Drummer, another music, genres. It's different. It's the melody and the structure and the arrangement and the drums air, not the focus of the song, but in soul and funk music. It's the drums. That's where it all starts

spk_2:   33:45
well. I will always say that Tower of Power. That's really my only self indulgent gig. I'm a song lyric. I if I'm not here in the lyric with a song, is not complete and that big on solos. I do them. I'm not big on the over the top fills. If I had to, I would do it when I was on with Richard Marks. His music is pretty pop heavy and pretty tame. And as he always says, the song has been written. I had this one to bar drum fill that Jeff Porcaro played on one of his records, you know, But I'm going to make it my own and I went for it. And afterwards, of course, Richard comes back and says, Hermit, 1% less filled. I said, Why don't we play one Phil? And he looked at me with their Ugo. What kind

spk_0:   34:29
of crazy shit happen on the Richard Marx tour, like with the women? And I can't imagine what how crazy it must

spk_2:   34:36
with Richard ended like his last major tour. It

spk_0:   34:40
doesn't matter. I tour with 70 year old man Mark Andes. The girls are hitting on him all the time. It never ends with that.

spk_2:   34:48
Well, I will say this afterward, him with Kenny Loggins and seeing all like the 1st 4 or five rows of beautiful 30 to 55 year old women who are about, you know, just wanting to do whatever right at them with Richard Marx seeing younger girls. But seeing the whole first level like that, it was pretty amazing.

spk_0:   35:10
The first time I worked with Gavin DeGraw. I know, Elliot. You're kind of fond of Gavin. I toured with him for a while. I had no idea who Gavin DeGraw was or anything. I was on tour with the Support Act, were out for, like, nine months or something. We start the first show, and it was in some college town Boston and on some college campus and the lights go down and all of a sudden these flashbulbs start popping up.

spk_2:   35:36
You would

spk_0:   35:36
have thought Michael fuckin Jordan was walking into the

spk_2:   35:38
arena. Think Gavin walks out on stage and he

spk_0:   35:41
sits down by his piano, and all of a sudden, the entire room smelt like tea.

spk_2:   35:46
I was just like, Who is this guy? It's just crazy when that's that stuff that happens. What you know, we were talking

spk_0:   35:54
about in the first episode with Dave Anderson the first time you're ever in an arena or a big room. And you hear, like 5000 women scream at the same time. That sound,

spk_1:   36:04
you know, having to grow guts, them energy. Oh, my God. Yeah, he's cool. I like them.

spk_0:   36:10
We had a really fun one. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Ah Florida venue called Janice Landing. Sure, you guys are probably been through there. So we're playing Janis. Landing was the last night of the tour. They have the dressing rooms in the back, so you go up behind the stage up two or three levels or something, and then on the outside of where the dressing rooms are, there's a little balcony kind of area, and you can look over and you can see the stage from looking over the balcony. They had no, we were the opener, so we didn't get any hospitality or anything. This is a van to her, right? So we had, like, a thing of grapes that was left in the fruit ball. So we walk out, we're munching on the grapes, just kind of watching this show. And Michael Culture the opening act, who has standing out there with? He takes a great, but he drops it down and we kind of count how long it takes to get there. Because when you look down Rodney's floor, Tom, I mean, you had just a perfect shot, so we would try and time where he was going to do a fill and then we could hit the floor time with the grapes. So it sounds like a bag of corn just fallen down the stairs. Well, that was like our last night tour prank. I took one of these remote control fart machines and I taped it to the the 91 inside the kick drum. And then I was trying to trigger it during soft parts. It was like a tour frank kind of night. Yeah, but great guys, I mean, really fun tour. It was amazing, but I had never seen that kind of. That's the closest thing to like the Beatles that I could think my generation cause I'm a little younger. It was, Yeah, all these women just going crazy. And you saw it build every night cause I got on board right when his album was taking off, so it would just build every night. The crowds are getting bigger and bigger, and the screams were getting louder and louder and it was just starting to get craziness backstage After a little

spk_2:   37:54
now for the rest of the night on would be singing that song in my head. What a great tune, You know. Come on. I don't want

spk_0:   38:03
this big. So, Elliot, speaking of some of those, uh, live at Daryl's house, shows or live, Was it live from Daryl's life

spk_1:   38:11
from Barroso's? Yeah,

spk_0:   38:12
from Darryl's? Yeah, OK, so you did a bunch of gigs with some pretty heavy hidden people out of everybody that you played with. Is there one that just kind of stands out above the rest?

spk_1:   38:24
That question. I've been asked a lot as well.

spk_0:   38:27
I'm sure I'm sure you have an answer for it. I mean, Billy Gibbons, John Resnick. There were some pretty like decent people that played on that. Just Smokey Robinson. Like you said, OJ's, you've got to tell the Jose Feliciano story. You have to Don't let us get done without tell

spk_1:   38:43
him. Oh, I mean, when he was just he he had an amazing sense of humor. It's all they could say. He had a serious potty mouth. His jokes were just like we couldn't believe what he was saying, that I should have been prepped because a good friend of mine that was in average white band Tiger McNeil that became his drummer for in years. But when he did the show, we used, I guess it was Brian done at that point. I forget because the musicians in the band changed over the years a couple of times, but he his jokes were just, like, unbelievable. I would never have expected his jokes to come from him. There's been moments on the show personally that were so important. I'm a rock guy, so that's really my love. Although I grew up listening to everything from Stevie Wonder Slide Family Stone. My mom was a classical pianist. My older brother was a blues guitar player, so all the British invasion stuff our Todd Rundgren was one of those records that was playing in my house when I was a kid 24 7 and now I played with Todd, known only twice on Live from Daryl's House. But I was in his band when he end up for home and we've been a whole bunch of things together. Those kind of things are super super special because those artists go throw far back with me in my history so that have played with them and play these stones that you grew up listening to were unbelievable and cheap trick. I was a huge cheap trick fan discovered them when I was 14 years old. 15 years old. Billy Gibbons and Joe Walsh. I mean, it just been, you know, kind of crazy. You

spk_2:   40:18
know, I was gonna ask Elliot. Yeah. Abouts working with Kenny Loggins on that show. Now, before you say, I have always said that if you can work with Kenny Loggins, you can work with any

spk_1:   40:32
e. You know, it's exactly what you say it.

spk_2:   40:35
Okay, then ago, I was lucky, fortunate and blessed to have gotten that gig.

spk_1:   40:40
Yeah. How long did you play with him?

spk_2:   40:42
Often on for about 10 years.

spk_1:   40:44
Wow. I didn't know was that long. Well, that's that's amazing.

spk_2:   40:47
I did the legal faith record. Or I should say that I played three songs on the leap of faith record with three different producers. Okay, he's a perfectionist. Yeah, Yeah, but I got the opportunity to work with Kenny Long against work with David Foster and work with all of those people because of Kenny Loggins. But he he could put you through the wringer. Yeah, The drummer seed is the hot seat in that band. Mostly because tress Imboden was so incredible. I learned a lot But I was gonna ask you, Elliot. I mean, yeah, they Did he make you guys drum some hoops? Yes. My God. I

spk_1:   41:20
know exactly where you're going with this. I had never worked with him before. Other than that show, I could tell instantly that this guy, he's a perfectionist, that he wants every note of his music to sound correct. I like that. I'm all for there to a certain point, you know, is he were an environment like Darrell show. Okay, you're playing with a whole new group of using urchins. You're gonna hopefully leave some room for everybody to kind of do their own thing and kind of just let it go where naturally wants to go. You would think on the outside that Darryl is sort of a perfectionist, and he really isn't. He's very instinctual now. They had worked together previously. A Kenny had toured with all the notes, so they were definitely acquainted. This was the situation that they were actually find songs together in trying to honor each other songs. So there's a couple of moments Not with me or really with anybody. I mean, hey, didn't have a problem with anything other than there was a uncomfortable moment where Darrell was not singing the harmony and candy sit bolt, he said, No, no, Darryl, this this is the harmony. This is the line and Darryl's Hey, said Kenny. Uh, I'm in this thing. It the way I want to sing it way could feel the tension sort of building up to this moment. And then it sort of just got released. Everybody realized, Let's just make the best of this and ah, and ultimately I think it went well.

spk_2:   42:49
It always turns out well, but yeah, just getting there sometimes is kind of weird.

spk_3:   42:54
Yeah, yeah. Which, Hola notes. Songs get sung at those events. How did they pick that?

spk_1:   43:02
It's really up to Darryl in the artist to, you know, whoever the guest is on the show is going to have their favorites that they want to do. But, you know, if they stay while I want to play Sarah smile, we've done Sara smiled so many times with different are they have to try to pick some different things. He tries to go a little bit into the deeper question. You get a little bit more unique with it You know, we've covered all the obvious hits, but I mean, they've got a lot of fury, obviously. So there's still plenty of songs that haven't been done.

spk_3:   43:28
What's the most difficult song at live at Carol's House that you've had to learn?

spk_1:   43:32
There has been some I should remember, but unfortunately, there's been so many songs that I played on that show that there has been some ones that have been more challenging but permanent. You know, the more you do something over and over and over again, even a different musical Senate situations, the easier sort of becomes. When you're working with four or five other great musicians, you get on a roll. For me, it's always about being super super prepared. But there's some challenging moments for sure. The first time I worked with Todd Rundgren, like I said, he's one of my heroes. His songs air very harmonically complex. There's a lot of chords in the A similar approach to Darryl. I mean, they're both from Philly. They both have this kind of similar approach to healthy write songs, but a lots of chords. Everything is changing. Nothing stays the same in a song. It's always evolving and changing. So it just mind your toes. Which is a good thing.

spk_2:   44:26
Yes, yeah.

spk_3:   44:27
Is that odd to have three people? There are former average white band members in that band.

spk_1:   44:34
Not for me. It's fantastic because I love them dearly. You know, Brian Dunn is thes amazing drummer, but he just one of the best people I know, a great person. And he was keeping on the average wiping about a year before I left. And then Clyde has been in and out of Kuala notes and obviously took my place. An average white band importer, he was never officially an average white band, but he was kind of in that moment in time. I think he did one of the videos and one of the songs I wrote for the average wiping way back when so straight toe have people that you have a history with around you. It's a good thing

spk_0:   45:10
I just have one more question for both of you guys. And then we're gonna close out with the soft past trivia music trivia, which I'll explain in a bit. But I just want to know. Elliot, can you share some of the funny things that happen that we don't get to see at the tapings. And then Herman also, what's the funniest thing you've ever seen at a gig? So, Eliot, you can start

spk_1:   45:32
the funniest things. Oh, God.

spk_0:   45:34
I mean, there's just gotta be some stuff that happens that, you know, off camera or setting up that the fans don't get to see.

spk_1:   45:42
Oh, God, OK, there's probably becomes the mind and I can't say the name of the Bear. But there was a band that came on life in Daryl's house, and something was said about some musical performance that was on the record. And it was said, not by me. It was said by somebody, and unbeknownst to that person, the manager of the band was standing right behind them. Uh, and work do with realized it was, it changed the tone of, but it was all good. Actually. There episode, you know, really, really good.

spk_0:   46:19
Anybody ever just spill a big thing of food in the cooking section? Are, you know, like, just crazy stuff? There's gotta be some funny moments.

spk_1:   46:26
It's not funny so much, but we all know Booker T Legendary. Just one of the best of the best of the best when the mind to do life in Daryl's house. Okay, we know we're going to do green onions and I'm like, Oh my God, this legends going to be right next to me So the band usually shows up early in the morning. We run through the songs a couple of times, so Booker t comes and he's getting his ham and together and he's dialing it in. And I noticed them looking over it, and he's just does not look happy. And he just looks like, Man, don't come next to me. Don't say I really wanted to just go up to his shake his hand ago. I am so honored to play with you. This is gonna be great. And I just got this really heavy vibe from him, like just you know, I'm doing my thing, man, I don't wanna talk. So it was kind of off putting. We start doing the songs and he starts opening up and seems to be getting happier and happier. And then we get to the food segment after the show, and everything by then is going great. We sit down Teoh and he says, man This has been one of the greatest days of my life

spk_2:   47:28
on I'm thinking this guy is pissed off

spk_1:   47:31
the whole day and he's just This was unbelievable.

spk_2:   47:33
This was one of the That

spk_1:   47:36
was a very unusual situation. Mostly, you know how to read the artists in 99% of the times. It's always been great. That was the one time that really threw me.

spk_0:   47:46
What about you, Herman? What's the most hilarious thing that's ever happened at a gig?

spk_2:   47:50
This was years ago now. Okay, Years ago, back when I was with Tower and average White Band were on the show together. Their buses are frying our buses reclined him and Allen. You know, says Harmon, Come on the bus, you and have a drink with this big book, the show. So literally I'm thinking we're gonna have one drink for them to go on stage and do their thing. So we have the one drink. I said, Thank guys, Have a great show. We'll see you and wait, where you going? And next thing I know, there's an empty bottle. Now I I can't walk off the bus because I'm drunk as hell. Those get eyes It was like mother's milk to them. I mean, Alan Ani water to them and they went out and played a fantastic show. And then I'm blasted off my goober. They saved the best

spk_1:   48:39
for after the show.

spk_3:   48:40
Oh, yeah, that to me. One time in Atlantic City, they invited me to one of their rooms. And of course, I had to bring attribute, if you will, some McCallum go there just like it's water, and I'm sitting there and just do more and more, more and more.

spk_2:   48:55
It seems to be that way with guys like that. When I was working with Tom Jones, it was the same thing. I would sit there night after night with Tom Jones because I loved hearing the stories hanging with Elvis. I mean, he's like a blues and rock and roll aficionado.

spk_1:   49:10
Oh, yeah? What a singer.

spk_2:   49:12
Oh, yeah. Amazing. Amazing. I'm the only one that's they're not granted. I've never had Kristall before, But Tom Jones, that's what you drink. So here we are, and literally we are somewhere like in Spain, I think. And they have that law

spk_0:   49:27
so they don't close. Yeah, right

spk_2:   49:28
along. This someone is in the bar the bar stays okay, so there's just Tom myself in Tom's, you know, the guy who makes sure Tom wakes up every morning. So he's sleeping, though, you know, So Thomas telling me all these fantastic stories and, you know, and I'm looking outside and the sun is coming up and turn says, You know, Herman, that's just what else would you have to drink there? That that's what Tom it It's six o'clock in the morning, the sun's coming up nonsense. Bartender and we drank all the way through

spk_1:   50:01
Oh, memory we're sending to Tom Jones because my mom would just be in love with him and walking his show. It was a little kid to his voice, is just so He's one of the best fingers, one of the best old singers in the world, I think,

spk_2:   50:15
Oh, no, for legends that are out there, you know, I do have

spk_1:   50:18
a quick roll story. I'll tell you, make a really short We were doing a show, all notes doing his show. I think it was in Memphis. It was a big vegetable. Cheryl Crow had already played. We come out, we're doing our thing and we get to. She's gone because of where I'm stationed on the stage record. See Cheryl's over to the side of spring. We just used loving, and she's really feeling that we do. She's gone and I could just tell. I look at looking over there. She's singing along to the song that she's really in the moment. It just walks out on stage and goes right up to Darryl and goes Rate, had his side and starts singing with him. Now Darryl is looking straight ahead. He has idea that Cheryl Crow next to him. All he think is that there's some crazy woman that broke up. It got on stage and get this girl the hell off of my stage. Oh my. She's not getting anywhere with Darrelle. So she looked over at John and John's like, I'll come over here, come over here So she goes over to John's mike. She starts singing, and now Darryl looks over and realizes it's Cheryl and like. Then she comes over to Darryl and they hug and it's all good. But for a moment it was like

spk_0:   51:32
foiled again, spoiled again by Darryl. Alright, guys. So we have one last segment and This is how it works. It's a trivia game, and it's really simple. I get to pick who's on my team. Whoever's left goes on Allen's team, and then once Alan, here's the subject of the trivia questions. He will determine whether my team is gonna answer or his team is gonna answer, and then whoever gets four right questions out of five winds. So if you get four wrong, we win. If you're playing for your side and vice versa. Sounds complicated, it's really not. So okay, I'm gonna pick Elliot my my person, to pick who answers the question. So the subject for the trivia is popular music in the 19 seventies. Allen, Who's gonna answer? Oh, Herman! Alright, hurt and you got to get four out of five. It's not hard.

spk_2:   52:33
Oh, my goodness. Okay. In 19

spk_0:   52:36
79 which duo had the Billboard Top 40 Number one hit No more tears. Enough is enough!

spk_2:   52:46
Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Uh, no more tear

spk_0:   52:51
in parentheses. Enough is enough.

spk_2:   52:56
Wow! Wow! 1979! A duo was a duo. Wait, No more tears. Barbra Streisand! And who is that? Donna Summer, Donna

spk_0:   53:11
Summer. All right, I think ding He gets it. All right.

spk_2:   53:15
I was trying to get to the course of the song. Elliott,

spk_0:   53:18
did you know that one? Totally not. OK, all right. Question to okay. The Beatles broke up in late 1970. Their final number one was the long and winding road in June of the same year when they broke up. Which ex Beatle was the 1st 1 to put out a song on the top of the billboard charts? Ringo, that's wrong. It was George Harrison, my sweet lord.

spk_2:   53:48
Really? Oh,

spk_0:   53:50
you got your one wrong. Come on. OK, come out her this much of easy. In 1972 the Rolling Stones released a song called Tumbling Dice. On which album did this song appear?

spk_2:   54:05
Oh, God, that is easy. Um, that is easy way. I just want to make sure I'm right. This computer cheating i e. I know that

spk_0:   54:24
I did 72 tumbling dice. 1972. What album? Rolling Stones. You know what? Still wills okay? No, no. Oh, Elliot.

spk_1:   54:39
Well, I'm going to guess at exile on Main

spk_0:   54:43
Street. You're not required to answer, but yes,

spk_2:   54:46
that's right. Okay. Uh, I'm sorry, guys.

spk_0:   54:50
We could do the other two just for fun. This 1967 released by Smokey Robinson and The Miracles, did not hit at first but resurfaced in 1970 became a number one hit. What tune Was It? Man? First released in 1967. It didn't Didn't take and then came back in 1970 became a number

spk_2:   55:13
one. Wouldn't Be. Tears of Cloud.

spk_0:   55:16
That's right, Tears of a Clown. And the last one. What was the 1970 Jackson five song that also became a hit for Mariah Carey over 20 years later?

spk_2:   55:26
Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah, you're only one offer. I can't believe that I'm a Stone's freak, too.

spk_0:   55:38
Guy's a thanks so much for coming on the show and just sharing some bullshit stories with us and taking us through the history of your pedigrees and all that. It was a great time. Alan, Thanks for helping set this up. It was really fun to hear some of these stories tonight. Guys were awesome. This is so

spk_2:   55:53
much fun. I gotta put this out there if we get you know, beyond this thing that's going on out there,

spk_0:   55:59
I'm looking for a game So if anybody needs a drummer, why don't we give a little opportunity here? You both have websites, right? Elliott lewis dot com. Yep, Exactly. And same with Herman, Right? Herman Matthews dot com. Correct. And they both have solo CDs and in a brutal way, take care. Soft Pass is a wiggle the wire audio production we'd like to thank our bus drivers can't see straight and miles to go. Our audio adviser stereo blaring and microphone studio lights by any position. Our house electrician's Maxwell Power, our union steward Manny Kin are monitor engineer Tad more. Our music transpose er Betty dropped it. Our staff bartenders Ryan Coke and Brandy Decanter are bluegrass music supervisor Amanda Lynn, our accountant. Oh, in cash are cleanup Crew's supervisor, Armand Hammer, catering by Can Dispenser and Bill Loney, our valet Ford Parker and our guitar Tech Rusty Steel for Alan Tillis. I'm John Michael saying Thanks for listening. This has been soft past. Find us on Facebook at soft past podcasts special thanks to blue microphones and the law firm of Shulman Rogers. Theme music by the Sami on a span. Join us again next time for more stories about the entertainment industry