Episode 4 - Singer Jason Malachi & Goran Kralj (The Gufs)

On this episode we have a rare appearance from east coast Singer/Songwriter Jason Malachi along with Midwest Singer/Songwriter Goran Kralj. Jason's life was turned into upheaval 10 years ago among accusations connecting him to the 2007 Eddie Cascio / James Porte / Michael Jackson sessions which were brought into ill repute by Teddy Riley and members of the Jackson Family, and ended up in an ongoing lawsuit - more about that in the episode.  We also talk about the songwriting process, Goran talks about seeing Jeff Buckley in the crowd at one of his past shows. Jason tells us about working with the R&B group Dru Hill and Jodeci among others in the studio as well as working with producer Damon Sharpe. Goran tells us his Desmond Child story. Jason expounds on horseback riding escapades in Los Angeles with Suge Knight. Goran talks about his band The Gufs and some of their touring experiences with Jars of Clay, The Samples, and Matchbox 20. We close out with a sneak peak of each artists new solo record, including a never before heard clip of Jason's new record.   

Jason's Website - www.jasonmalachi.us
Goran's Website - www.goransongs.com
The Gufs Website - www.thegufsmusic.com

Transcript

spk_1:   0:04
welcome to Soft Fast, hosted by John Michaels, a 30 year veteran tour manager and sound engineer for some of entertainment's most well known touring. Sit down with songwriters, musicians, producers, managers, lawyers and touring professionals Talk about what really goes on behind the scenes in the studios, offices and on the road in the entertainment industry. Welcome to yet another edition of Soft passed by Davis, John Michaels. And as you know, by now on this show, we talk about life in the music business In all the stories that surround it. I have a good one for you. This month we have two guests, as always, one who, in the middle of a very promising career was thrown a giant curveball. We're gonna hear about that in a bid. And

spk_0:   0:53
another industry veteran who can relate to a lot of the curve balls in the music business can throw at people because he's dealt with his own set of them over the years, both our songwriters and performers with very different styles, and at the end of the show, I'm gonna play a track from each of these guys so you can check them out, respectively. My first guest is a monster Indiana native, but he went to college in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in the late 19 eighties, where he and his brother formed a rock band with some other UW M college friends. They called the band that Gulf's. The band was popular, but my guest was also the star midfielder for the U. W M soccer team and was also voted as one of the top 50 amateurs toe watch in 1997 by Sports Illustrated magazine. So when it came to graduation time, he had a choice to make. Is it going to Be sports? Or Rock and Roll? While he stuck with the band? And in 1995 they were signed to Atlantic Records for their first commercial release. After touring and sharing shows with bands like Matchbox 20 Tonic, Crash Test Dummies and other alternative giants of the time, the band recorded a second record, which was produced by Arnold Lanni of Our Lady Peace fame. But the band was pushed off to the offshoot Lava label created by the Matchbox 20 camp. Now, to their surprise on the cusp of the support tour for the new record, Atlantic dropped the band and let them walk with their masters, which will talk about in a bit. Ah, this is where the known story of the Gulf sends. But with overwhelming local support in Wisconsin, the band continued on independently, releasing another record and alive DVD. The band was inducted into the Wisconsin Music Hall of Fame in 2012 and his recently reformed to play a handful of special events in Wisconsin and continues to poke their heads up in their adopted hometown is a reminder to their legacy. During the long breaks from the Guts, which happened as all the members had, families are guests continued his own song writing career, working with other known entities like Dan Wilson and Desmond Child. Ah, lot of this extra writing ended up in the release of a solo record called Any Day Now in 2004 featuring loops and beats from an up and coming audio guy named John Michaels. After his own marriage and some kids, my guest moved to Nashville, Tennessee, as he tends to other businesses and raises his family. But he continues to write songs for Dan Hodges music publishing and does co writes with people like Josh Kerr, Jonathan Cane from Journey, Joe Doyle and other music row patrons. His current song writing led to the release of his most recent solo record, Under a Nashville Sky, which was nominated by the Wisconsin area music industry for two awards this year. Please welcome to the show My Good Friend and a great songwriter, Mr Goran Crawl.

spk_2:   3:28
Thanks for having me, John. Listening to that I was kind of getting proud of myself. It's like Should have I've got a lot of stuff.

spk_0:   3:35
Yes, Mu chose. Go says my friend. Now Ah, disclaimer on this next intro. It's going to be long, and I'll explain at the end why My second guessed is originally from Gaithersburg, Maryland. He started in the early nineties and middle school with an interest in dance with influences like the great Fred Astaire, Elvis Presley, James Brown and another pop star who will become self evident here shortly. He says that when he saw Michael Chambers as Turbo in breaking, too, he was hooked on break dancing forever. He even earned a full scholarship from motion mania dance company in Maryland, where he continued to develop his skills as a dancer in 1988 he got ahold of an old tape recorder and accidentally recorded his first song over his parents audio wedding tape, which he reports they're still a little sore about. I mean, it was like the first recording you ever did pretty much launched her careered. It must have been some wedding. He recorded his first real song in 1993 which is a version of the five Saddens in the Still of the Night, But this was never released. His commercial debut didn't come until 2003 with a follow up in 2010. But right around the time of his second record being finished, Something happened. In 2009 pop icon Michael Jackson dies. And remember that curveball I was talking about? In 2010 Sony Music released a compilation of unreleased tracks and new music that Jackson was working on in an album titled Simply Michael. On this album, there were 10 tracks with production credits from people like Teddy Riley, and John MacLean was on there. In addition, there were three songs taken from a 12 song recording session with Eddie Casio and James Port, where they claimed Jackson worked with them at Eddie's Home Studio in New Jersey in 2007. Now the relationship between the Casio family and Jackson is well known, and there's even evidence to corroborate that Jackson was there at the time that Eddie Cascio says that he waas. So when the songs were presented, it was generally accepted that they were authentic recordings. There were three songs from this session, which were put on the Michael Album Breaking News, which was actually released on Jackson's website prior to the record Coming Out Monster and Keep Your Head Up. The song Breaking news reached Number one on the U. S. Pop charts. These three songs were brought into drama and dispute by members of the Jackson family, really spurred by Teddy Riley with comments stating their disbelief in the authenticity of the vocal tracks. A bit later, other comments were appearing in social media connecting my next guest to these tracks due to the similar nature of his vocal stylings. In 2010 Sony said they were confident that the vocals belonged to Jackson, releasing a statement saying Quote, we have complete confidence in the results of our extensive research as well as the accounts of those who are in the studio with Michael that the vocals on the new album are his own end quote. To make things even more strange, Teddy Riley and Eddie Casio appear on The Oprah Winfrey Show to validate the authenticity of the tracks. Now I should note the man that Michael Jackson called the finisher. Teddy Riley has changed his position on this issue several times over the years to make things even more interesting. In 2011 a mysterious Facebook post shows up on my next guest page, claiming that he, in fact, did do those recordings. And, of course, within hours of the post going up, it was removed and an apology was posted about the account being hacked as tons of rumors corrupt and start to circulate in the storm of the Facebook page being hacked fast forward to 2014. A class action lawsuit is brought to Casio and Port by a woman named Vera Sarava from California, with the claim of defrauding the people by misrepresenting the album's authenticity. Also dragged into this lawsuit is the Jackson Estate and Sony Music. However, just recently three appellate court judges ruled in an appeal in the estate and Sony's favor, essentially removing those two parties from the class action lawsuit. Now I know it's been long already, but let me try to explain this ruling as briefly as I can because it was somewhat wrongly reported that Sony admitted to the songs being illegitimate, they didn't. Sony is maintaining in their argument on this specific issue, that even if the vocals were not genuine, it's Sony's First Amendment right to release them in the spirit of Michael's music. In other words, the album is called Michael, and the songs on it are a posthumous representation of Michael's work. Now this is just my elevator speech on the argument Sony was presenting, but something to remember. Their argument wasn't an admission of the songs being illegitimate. They're just maintaining that. Even if it wasn't him, Sony didn't break the law. And if you want to look more into it, you'll have to really study the legalese on commercial and non commercial speech in how the First Amendment applies to it. It's actually pretty fascinating. In any case, Sony also maintains that when they obtain the songs, the authenticity wasn't even brought into question. So again, even if the songs turn out to be illegitimate. Sony claims they acted on good faith. Initially, the Jackson Estate and Sony were effectively released from the lawsuit in this ruling, and that is the latest news. But the lawsuit still goes on, and it's my next guest who remains in the crossfire of this highly dramatized lawsuit. And the reason for this whole entire monologue introduction of him is because outside of what I've just explained here, we're not going to be able to discuss any of it. But we will be able to talk to him about what he's been doing over the past few years, including song writing, recording and releasing of his own music. He's been booked for events hosted by MTV in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, to name a couple. He's collaborated with well known artists and producers such as the R and B group Drew Hill. He's worked with David Sharp, Ray J. And Suge Knight, which I can't wait to hear about. Please welcome the very talented singer and songwriter Mr Jason Malachite to this show. Thanks, John. Appreciate Thean show very lengthy intro, by the way, but how you all doing let me take a breath. After all that,

spk_2:   10:14
I think we should change course. I think the show should be all about Jason, because way more interesting than my life. Wow.

spk_0:   10:22
Well, we're gonna get into some interesting topics. Jason, you've known. I saw in an interview said you wanted to be an entertainer since very early. I think you said, like five years old. Yeah, when you finally got into writing and producing songs, you also had to learn about publishing and licensing and exactly song pitchers and all that other stuff kids. So could you just explain the process from the point where you write a song going forward? And then Gordon's down in Nashville doing the same kind of processes? So maybe we can kind of get a take on how you do it and how it's done down there cause it's a whole like machine down there. I've always I have a song idea and I'll start writing it, or Producer was sent me a track, and it's like, Hey, you know what? Can you come up with this? So the creation process starts. Most people think that's where it ends, but really it just begins when you have to get a copyrighted Symonette for publishing. You know, one song. You get paid so many different avenues with, you know, sound exchange and then ask Apple B m I you gotta register the song, then you have to register with your publishing company. So it's a pretty extensive process that a lot of people don't really uh, really think about. And then once you get all that paperwork done, then that that's still only the beginning. Then you have to kind of get it pitch to people and, you know, try and get it placed in places. I mean Gore. And down there in Nashville, you get you gotta just like I know there's been times where I've done an idea with you. And then I've come up there the next weekend or two and you had a fully done fully produced demo made. I mean, it's like a machine.

spk_2:   11:46
Yeah, down there when we're writing, the first thing that we're starting with is a title. You get into a room with some very creative people, and you just start throwing around titles. Back when I was playing with the Gulf's, it was more like how Jason could describe that. You know, we'd start with some type of track, that the ban would just start jamming, and then you kind of fill in the pieces based on the vibe of the track. But down there, if the title is not good in the story, doesn't kind of tell the story of the title than that. It's not a song that Nashville's gonna embrace, so lyrics are paramount to the success of any song down there. And then, obviously, you know, you gotta have a great melody. I was tell people It's like the melody that draws you in. But it's the story, the lyric that keeps you there for the three minutes. So,

spk_0:   12:27
Jason, do you do all of your own musical accompaniment like, Do you play instruments and do melody and stuff, too, with your tracks or you strictly just a singer? I play keyboard a little bit, get my melody right, but a lot of times I literally do the instrumentation with my mouth and record it, and then I'll get the producers involved who are the experts, and if they actually play the instruments and they'll come in and kind of get my vibe, and I'm very like meticulous macaca Drill sergeant when it comes to that and like, I just got to be like, Perfect. You know, I'm sure all artists are like that. I'm sorry going to relate

spk_2:   12:56
to that. Yeah, absolutely no CD.

spk_0:   12:58
It's an interesting process. So, like when you worked with the R and B group Drew Hill, what was that process like, Did you actually, were you working with Cisco are? Yeah. How was how did that go down? That was really cool. So I was working with a producer up in Baltimore, and that's where if people know Drew Hill, the history behind the Army group there from Druid Hill in Baltimore were doing like a compilation record. This was shortly after, like, 9 11 So we're all trying to, like, think about a song to got to reunify the country and get you know, those things going. So it's called Baltimore United or I know I could make it. We had a lot of artists that were from the Baltimore or Washington D. C. Area, kind of come together and do like a collaborative effort. I got pulled in. I had no idea of the big artists are gonna be involved. Like Paula Campbell was involved as well. Casey and Jo Jo from Jodi See, were there. It was really cool. And actually in my session at the time, I was pretty young and the producers like, Hey, you guys got check this kid out so I didn't realize, like, Cisco and jazz when you're gonna be in my actual session, you know? So I'm just in my booth doing my thing, you know, recording the tracks and the producer sent in different melodies and stuff and then I come out on jazz is there and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I don't really shouldn't be here And jazz asked me for my autograph. I'm like, Are you crazy? Can I get your autograph? Like, What's going on, man? Yeah, that was pretty cool. And there's more to that story to acting. We could talk about later about actually working with Cisco, actually going to his house with some of the producers of stuff. But we could talk about that stuff later. Goran actually have the same kind of thing happen to him with with one of the songs from any day now, right? Didn't you dio. That was kind of like a 9 11 truther

spk_2:   14:19
at a song called Where Are You Now? That Ah, some management folks that were working with me felt that the song kind of embodied strength at a time where, maybe under the circumstances, the country needed it. So we put it out just to say, Hey, here's what we can offer to help Maybe this will help somebody he'll a little bit And then it started blowing up on Milwaukee radio and had some life. So that was It wasn't on any day now, but it was kind of right before that time. It kind of preceded that. That whole album,

spk_0:   14:47
that's right. Yeah, I was a little bit before. That's right, Jason, your project was that kind of like a to raise money for victims kind of thing. The producer was trying to organize it and kind of give back to the community and, like, get all these artist together and I mean, I was like the amateur involve everyone else's like professional careers. I was just honored to be a part of the project, and, you know, they were giving it out to different charities in the Baltimore area. And I think Ray Lewis from the Baltimore Ravens at the time he was involved in the project was pretty cool. So I gotta ask you, OK, there's this stuff over here with MJ. But if we really want to talk about controversy and drama, you worked with Suge Knight and you're still here to tell a story. So let's have it, man, I gotta hear about Yeah, I knew that was coming back with that producer in Baltimore. Ironically, we got this phone call one time we were actually working on the Neville Brothers remake. Tell like it is back in the night. I think 1963 the never brothers recorded tell like it is was a huge hit. I'm sure you guys have no with that song. So we did a remake like a hip hop rap like Flip It Remake and it came out really well and I'm not really sure how should in his camp heard of it. I do know that my old management company, they worked with Jimmy. I've seen a lot, and they had pitched some of my stuff to Jimmy. I mean, so I know that Jimmy and Interscope were kind of working hand with Death Row and all this stuff back in the day. But long story short, should, I guess, has just come out of jail. And he was changing his label to the road to try to clean up the image. You know? Right? I didn't even know who was flying me out. I thought they said there's some label in l. A. I was like, OK, cool is a young kid. I was like, Let's go, Let's do it. So we get out there and it turns out it was should he have when he took me? There's a couple of the rappers that were there and the producer and he wanted take us all horseback riding. What? I'm not making this up. Yeah, We gonna go ride some horses? Yeah. No. So, you know, the Hollywood sign is behind. It is the Sun Valley Ranch is actually a horse ranch. Suge loves horses. He actually has his own horse. I'm not. You could tell you the name of his horse because it's going to be, you know, pretty obvious. But so we go horseback riding. He loved the record. The tell like it is remix. I'm He loved the record. I'm a big fan of years this and that. And he was really cool and cordial with me. And he really supported my music. We're looking at down over L. A. It was evening time and you can see like the Pacific Ocean was is awesome. He's like, I think you can really make it here. And he really believed in me. And I was impressed because, you know, with all the controversy, But he still had all those acts to pop Snoop Dog and Dr Dre like these were like platinum artists, you know? I mean so fast for we go to the studio. That was, like, the second evening where they're them, he finally gets me in the studio. The studio's packed like they're all, like, Who is this kid like that has his voice, you know. Oh, wait a minute. So you go in there and it's, like, jam full of all kinds of people staring you down and a 100% exactly Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was fine with it. I was just in all because track recording studios is like we're all those big hits were made Absolutely. So I was in there. And you see all that? You know, all the plaques on the walls, you like, Man, this is awesome. I can't leave him here. You know, I should like to be a part of the record. He'd always be at the board. And there's a lot of producers and stuff in and out. The funny thing is, when we first I don't know if this was like my audition, but he already heard the record. I guess they want to hear me, like, sing live there like, Oh, they just want to have you, like, freestyle for a while or something. Yeah. They're like, I wanna make sure this disguise legit. You know, they had these three very attractive young ladies sitting on the couch in the studio. He will call me Malik. I he's a Malika gets going the booth. That's all right. He said, sing whatever you want. And these three young ladies are your judge. I was like, OK, I got this in the bag. So I think my record and the whole studio just erupted. They're like, Oh, my gosh, this kid is the real deal. This net and so it was like shaking his head like, yeah, you know, it was great. So he did offer me a record contract we worked on. I think Ray J came through the studio. Mean Hammer Klavan also stuff some demo type work. At the time, he was working with Rose Well and crooked I and Eastwood with two rappers at the label. The time we started working on this stuff, he did offer me a record, you know, recording contract. And ultimately, at the end of day, I didn't take the contract for multiple reasons. But, I mean, he was real quarter with me, and he really believed in me. And with that record, he had, like, this brilliant marketing plan, he was like, We'll release the record. Every radio station in the country will be playing that now. Mind you, this was back in 2002 3 ish. Okay. Really earlier. Yes. So he was like, well released the record. All the stations will be playing it. But when I could tell anyone who it is initially, then we're going to reproduce this awesome music video because back then, music videos were still kind of popular, like now they're just, you know, it's all you to whatever. Sure, Um and that we just debut that way. And I thought it was a brilliant marketing plan, but it just didn't work out with the producers that I was already under contract with and management. And also, I had some family stuff where they actually want to move to l. A. And at the time, I wasn't ready to make that move just yet. So I didn't take the deal, but there was no hard feelings. And I'm It was amazing experience

spk_2:   19:25
I had out there in l. A.

spk_0:   19:26
What happened to the tracks that they keep over? Did you get to keep him or what happened with him? I think you could know what happened. Those tracks I don't have rights to those tracks was put that way. Okay, Right, right. I got you, Goran. You've done, you know, a bit of studio work with the gulf's. And you worked with Arnold in a couple studios up in Canada. Do you ever have one of those crazy moments? Were like, you turn around and somebody standing there that you just like Whoa, There's Steven Tyler.

spk_2:   19:50
I remember being ah in New York. We did a showcase got done and I go, I swear to God, That's Jeff Buckley. It's kind of crazy how all these artists you look up to and you loved over the years are so damn short that I like that can't be him. He's like, really tiny, But it was him on at the time. I mean, I was a huge Jeff Buckley family. You know how, like they say, Sometimes it's better if you didn't meet the people that you look up to. It was kind of one of those things, because I tried to pay him a big compliment, but he obviously was not all there, so it didn't go over very well.

spk_0:   20:27
It was like Steve Zeal it. Oasis, huh?

spk_2:   20:30
But during the recording of that record, when Arnold Lanny produced it, the label thought that we needed a big hit. So they sent me down to Miami toe work with Desmond Childs, and test means a huge talent, a little bit different genre and feel then what the gulf Soon we're doing. And that was one of my first co writes and usually with the Gulf's. I was writing everything with the band or by myself. So I remember going down there with my guitar to this beautiful mansion in Miami obviously was very successful in time. So lots of servants and we got to know each other a little bit on the veranda by one of the waterways that led into the ocean and started writing a song. And, uh, I wasn't feeling it. He took over. Is

spk_1:   21:08
it

spk_0:   21:08
hard to DWright when you're, like, overwhelmed with?

spk_2:   21:10
Yeah. When you know you're 20 you know, 567 and you're on a major label on your second record needs to do something, and they hook you up with Desmond Child, who's written Living La Vida Loca and, you know, love in an elevator and your writing all rock songs that were inspired by by R E m. You know, it is just a different vibe. Sorry to go with the flow, but I remember asking him because I thought that we were kind of cool. The cubs were cool is he's getting into the right and dictating it, and I was respectful. I go. So who do you see cutting this? Because this doesn't feel very like Oh rock to me and he said, All I can see Bon Jovi or Matchbox 20 cutting this and I was like, I mean right there. I knew that we were at two different ends of the creative spectrum. So I went into my hotel room. And then I turned a song called On the Last Train as we were working into a song called Last Goodbye, which happens to be a Jeffs Buckley producer. Loved it. The band loved it. The label loved it when I told Desmond, you know, I change the song and that's a touchy thing to you. Don't want to change the song behind somebody. But when I told them what I did the next day and played him my idea after I was inspired by me, he told me, Trust me, there's a reason why they sent you to May. So we went into the studio and recorded my version of it because Arnold, like that version better, and I remember the label loved it. Now I've got to go back and ask Desmond if it's OK, and you know, I felt bad, but I was like Desmond is, Here's the new song and you heard it. What do you think? And he was upset and rightfully so. He goes, you know, you changed our song. I thought we had a connection of vibe. And he goes, I upset. I don't wanna let you have it and goes, I don't need any more hits. And I said, But I could use one and he let us have it.

spk_0:   22:55
Can we just talk about what happened with that second record? Because that was about the time when I was young crew guy on the gruff screw during that tour. And I remember some of the just tumultuous stuff that was going on with label, and they really just kind of, like, dropped you and let you walk with the record right in the middle of the tour. Was it right before the tour,

spk_2:   23:16
And I was kind of right as the tour started. You know, when you get signed, you think that this is it. It's a gamble that you take, because if it doesn't work out, then you're usually left in a position where things go to shit real quick. And that's what happened to us again when you're 25 years old and Atlantic Records comes knocking on your door and you know you're doing the grassroots thing and there's no real way to get music out the way that there is today. If the Gulf's were today, you don't need a record label and you'd be able to do it all on this computer and be ableto maybe have a career that has, ah, lot more life to it. We didn't get signed by a somebody high on the totem pole, so that was the kiss of death right there where Matchbox 20 got signed by, like the G M. So when they gave us the second record, it's because Milwaukee radio played the hell out of smiling Crash. And it did really well there, which kind of fueled some of the fire out through the Midwest. So we were more of a Midwest Regional success. They thought they'd take a chance on us. Rob Thomas was behind us and we made a great record. Everybody loved it. We got a huge publishing deal for me. Am I from it? But for some reason, the label just didn't hear much, and I think the kiss of death was the label wanting to release a ballot as the first single and us still thinking that we're cool rock guys wanting to release something harder. So we went kind of with our instinct. At the time, adult contemporary radio was falling apart, at least in Milwaukee, which was

spk_0:   24:40
your barometer to the university of

spk_2:   24:42
Absolutely. So they add last goodbye. It's doing well, and the station within the first few weeks changes to like some type of hog format where they're playing clan Toprak.

spk_0:   24:57
That happens all the time, too. It's very fickle. Jason, Did you have any of those knocks on the doors where? I mean, when MTV called you, what was that? Jesus had so many of those type of knocks. Some good, some bad. But so with MTV. Ah, what? I begin with this one. So the reason why MTV came around was back in 2007. I had a song, was like it was a pop like Latino like type feel like, you know, like a salsa type song. Ah, the mamacita. Yes. So what happened was I don't know how it leak. We haven't released the record. We're still working on it. But it leaked to a Pittsburgh radio station. They started playing and then it started spreading like wildfire. However, the reason why I was spring like wildfires everyone was saying that it was the new Michael Jackson Records. Yeah, yes. So every station it started playing like it went regional and the neighbor when it went over to L. A. They're playing. This was like 2007 like beginning to thousands waited and Suge Knight didn't sue him for stealing his his campaign. Sorry, no comments, though the song starts spread like wildfire. My camp was trying like clear. If I say no, it's not Michael, This is Jason Malika, but continue playing it. Please. We love the world. Sees coming in, you know? So anyway, long story short. What happened was TMZ, fox, TMZ, they call wind of it. And they did like a whole story arm and everything they did to articles on me. They actually had it on the actual television show. Because of that, MTV got word club jet out the Mirage Hotel out in Vegas. They were doing this New Year's bash fast word into early 2008 for New Year's Eve for 2008. So they invited me out to come out there. Remember that show on MTV The hills with Hiding Spencer? Yeah. They were like the host, the guests of the show. It was like a V i, p only like type show Ray a club jet. It was pretty cool because MTV was like, Hey, we want you come out to the show. They took care of everything, got me out there. I was on the marquee, Did the show is awesome. And that's kind of how it all started. But l started from my song being mistaken as MJ and then, you know, fast forward teams. He's doing these articles and just it was crazy. The truth about any press is good press, you know? Absolutely it work. It does. And that really is not my doing. I mean, I mean, I took the ride, but it was way might as well just get to the elephant in the room here. You're swept into this lawsuit from out of the blue from the Internet crowd, and then it gets exasperated when your social media pages hacked. Tell us some of the things that you've had to deal with personally and in your career because of all this drama like How are you able to push forward creatively? Because it's got to be a bit of a source of cognitive dissidence being the fact that you're you look up to the guy and now you're embroiled in this lawsuit, you know? I understand. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's been a double edged sword my whole life, Really, Ever since I was young going in the studio, literally. Their producers, they hear my voice in the like, Oh, man, we love that sound, But I've spent so much time trying to create my own sound. I'm not like an impersonator or anything like that. You know, I have my own legitimate sound right moment songs. When all that controversy took place, my Facebook page got hacked literally. I was in the process. I just finished recording my debut pop album with Damon Sharp. He's a multi platinum producer from L. A. He did Jennifer Lopez. My love don't cost a thing that's got what kind of put him on the map. He also worked with all the big time rush records. Britney Spears, a lot of pop acts. Damon's behind them, either as a songwriter or producer, so me and Damon like we became friends and flew out to L. A. We did promise the whole critical album together. Damon, myself and some other Rice co wrote their song critical. So at 2010 we were about to release my debut pop record like that was highly anticipated everything. And then all that controversy hit my Facebook pages hacked. Someone starts making comments that are fraudulent. Like I did not post those comments. Someone just hacked and make comments trying to clear that up. And then from that point, it got really crazy. Like we were getting like death threats like legitimate death threats. People call now What? Yeah, yeah, people call in the house. I literally like no joke. We actually had to move my family. We moved on even my new location, which we kept super secret in private. People will show up at our door, and people would show up and put letters in my mailbox, and it got that severe. Like some of these, these fanatics are like, I don't understand that, like, angry and stuff. And it got pretty crazy that whole album, with all that hype from my critical album, it like, just killed the whole vibe and like, Do you think it's tainted your career? Because here it's not even something you're really involved in. You were kind of dragged into it. Are you constantly trying to have to explain this now to people, when you're pitching your record and less like the first thing, it always comes up and not even so much the controversy, because it's, you know, spent a decade now is 10 years ago. You know, time is flying, but really it was like You sound so much like like MJ. So how can we pitch this? And I'm and I try explain. It was like, Look, put me on stage, Get me in front of an audience, you'll see it's me. This is not a gimmick like This is how I sound, but it's my own music. It almost takes that, you know, And then that's why I like back in the day when when should really believe that that gave me a lot of inspiration, cause I'm like, you know, here's someone who's successful that sees the vision. It's been a double edged sword throughout my career. It has been it's been very good shock value first, and then they're like. But then how do we market this? But then you get the weekend comes on the scene and pretty much goes that that hip hop RB route that I've been created like way before he came on the scene, and yet he's successful, so I always point better. Look, he's successful. So it works. It's not. It's not gimmick. Yeah, he has a similar tone as well, but he has his own style. And that's why he's so successful the weekend, you know? Yeah, but it's It's been a rollercoaster man, I tell you. Well, hopefully it's starting to settle down a little bit. Like I said, we can't really talk much about it. But I wanted to at least get your side on what you've been dealing with cause a lot of people probably have no idea what you're going through dealing with all this stuff and having to just try to do your own art, but then have having this lurking in the shadows all the time. It's got to be, yeah, frustrating, to say the least, allow these people their keyboard warriors. They will this land to you. They don't know they don't have any viable information. They just make assumptions and they go on social media and this slander you and try this and that. But I'll be honest with you. Like as of recently, I've been working on a new album the past three years. A producer. He's been trying to work with me for a long time. Ever since on the Contras have been very skeptical and selective on who I worked with because I feel like a other trying take advantage of me. You gotta have that extra layer of guarding that you normally wouldn't have exactly, you know, not conducive to being open and doing good work. Right? So we've been working this new record for three years now. You know I'll go when everyone's gone. Check the comments, and a lot of people who years ago were like, really hating on me are actually now coming over saying, Look, you know, we believe you're credible artists. We actually love your sound, you know? Yeah, there was that controversy, but we're on board, like, ones this album coming out. So that really gives me a lot of inspiration and hope, Goran, now that I have you in the hot seat. Who was it that leaked that advanced copy of the Gulf second record to Breiner when which eventually landed it on the radio? Well, before it should have been,

spk_2:   31:56
I think it was you. I would rather talk about Jason, like,

spk_0:   32:02
What do you want to ask?

spk_2:   32:03
Is faras those folks that air slandering and showing up and being just shitty like, What were they blaming you for? Like, were they thinking that you, ah, desecrated people love to hate, But I'm not quite sure what you did necessarily wrong.

spk_0:   32:19
So the main thing since the 2007 Mama seat, the explosion, it's been like, Oh, you're trying to take his place or you're trying to be Michael, You're trying And that's not the case at all. I have such admiration for the man. You know. He's the king of pop. He always will be. They will never be anyone that comes close. But on my own arse, I have our own stuff on the other side of that too, is then you get a lot of people. That's why so skeptical now is they literally will call me up even to this day. like and they want me to come. I think the one guitars he had from that this is it Tour was trying make arrangements to have me do like a tribute band. And then, just like last month, right before this whole stuff that's going on, the world is kind of crazy right now. But before that happened, this guy, he was ah, big tribute band out in Italy. He called me and said, Hey, man, it, what would it cost to get you out here to be the singer for this tribute band? And I'm like, I'm sorry, I love I love M J. I love his music. He's the greatest, but I'm not a tribute artist. I'm own artist amount of impersonator I never have been and I never will be so past, you know? I mean, they would offer you crazy stuff pretty decent money stuff, But I'm like, That's not me

spk_2:   33:19
as an artist, you know, if you're trying to make music, how you go about living, I have mad respect for you to be able to say no to all that stuff, cause I would think that that would be a cash cow, so lots of respect for you just sticking true to what you do. And you know, it's funny. It's like being a singer. I can relate. I've been in the studio where people say, Try to sing that a little bit different or try to sing that

spk_0:   33:40
you could, uh

spk_2:   33:41
and I'm like, I got to be honest with you. What you're getting is what naturally comes out unless I'm really gonna write for something just ludicrous. So, as a singer, Aiken told the respect. I listen to your music leading up to this, and you definitely have a killer voice. Thank you. Does it sound like it doesn't sound like Michael? Yeah, that's OK in my book, just like you said the weekend. That's cool. He does sound like Michael when that came out, that's what I thought of, and that worked. But it's not easy to just change your voice, so whatever you're doing is naturally coming out exactly Whatever inspired you, whether that's Michael or that type of pop growing up, it inspired you. But that's what's coming out. You just can't like all of a sudden fucking change it just because itself, somebody else.

spk_0:   34:23
Exactly both of you guys have families? Yep. And you both have other jobs. So how do you find the time to fit this other part of your life in to record, too? Right. Jason, you have a daughter that's even recording now. So how do you balance the family in the work and writing and recording and everything else? You know? A lot of people may know or not know I'm actually a first responder. My wife also is a first responder being in the music business for so long. My daughter nationally followed suit. I come from a family of singers or musicians. My grandmother. She was actually all with Capitol Records back in the fifties, so she was a professional recording artist. I come from a family line of singers and musicians. It is a tough balance. Ah, a lot of sleepless nights, especially when you have a project or a gig or a song that you're working on. Then you still have that 9 to 5. And you know, for a while I was able to make a pretty decent living on music alone. But then starting the family, my wife's like, Listen, you know, I believe in your dreams just, you know, and that's good with right now the dreams are paying the bills. So I had the consul now a little bit. And that's why a lot of my fans will be like, When's your next recommend? They don't realize like it's

spk_2:   35:30
a lot of

spk_0:   35:30
work to put into a record. You can't just Russia record like you have to do it the right way. And then on top of that you have a 9 to 5. Then you also have kids. And now my daughter having a relationship with Damon Sharp. Well, Damon worked on a few years ago. Arianna Grandes last record. So Damon calls him up, but he knew my daughter is up and coming singer. He met her a couple times, and he's like thinking daughter Leah she'll be great for this one record. It didn't make The Ariana Grande is a final cut, but it was like the top three or four that didn't make it, and I think she'd be great for So we flew out to L. A. Did the song that came out great shot the music video and kind of lost her career as well. And she's doing pretty well, and she's a really good like musician. Like she actually hold on hold on back of a little bit. What was that like for her to go through that process? Not being as young as she is and not really knowing you. Just basically. Now you can't go anywhere lower than that with her. You know that now, right?

spk_2:   36:19
Just how old is she?

spk_0:   36:21
She's 16 now, OK? She's a junior in high school now. Super talented, like naturally. And she actually took it further and actually went and studied music and plays and reads music and everything, you know? So when we went to L. A with her, she was, I think, 13 when she record that record set by three years ago. The thing is, I'm sure she appreciated, but I don't think she valued like probably when me and Gordon were growing up. And, you know, we had a kind of hustle for myself already. Being in the industry already had the connection. So it was like she grew up in the studio with me. It was like, Oh, we find l A to do again with one of dad's ah, producer friends, you know, But Then when she realized that he was, he would work with Ariana Grande and then she coming. I got excited in the con. She inspired her for that. So that was pretty cool. Has Hayden or Ah Harlow took and a real interested music at all?

spk_2:   37:02
Yeah, my kids, Air eight and 12 and my son, 12 year old, is get amazing voice, kind of self taught piano. So he it's got a great area. So I told him, like the talent that he has his way beyond what I had at that age. But I agree with you Chase, and it's like he's grown up watching me, right, watching the record, what should be placed. So it's almost like not a big of a deal to them. You know, it is a fine balance between pushing him and, you know, seeing that excitement. And I really haven't yet seen the excitement in him. I think he's more excited. Teoh playing his Xbox

spk_0:   37:35
Don't all the Gulf's have kids? I mean, couldn't there be like a second generation?

spk_2:   37:39
Well, it's crazy because Morgan, the lead guitarist, his sons like Thes 14 or 14 and he's an amazing guitar player,

spk_0:   37:45
is like better than bargain, right?

spk_2:   37:47
You asked more. He's on his way to becoming way better, just like Hayden's on his way. But you gotta have that work ethic if you don't have that desire and that that drives and it doesn't really matter,

spk_0:   37:57
there it is right there. You're right after 100%. Well, speaking of that work ethic, back when we had that work ethic and you were touring around in a van with the Gulf's back in the mid nineties, you did get to do some cool, bigger tours in the early days, including some runs with Matchbox 20. I gotta ask that Are there any funny stories from those days? I know there has to be some funny Rob Thomas stories in there somewhere.

spk_2:   38:19
We were signed at the same time. It was like 95 we're touring 96. We were on tour with Jars of Clay and the samples, and you couldn't ask for two different. What a weird It's a weird combo, not just musically, but Jars of Clay is a Christian rock band, and the samples are a granola salt of the earth, the hippy esque Band of Colorado. So I think what ended up happening is jars of Clay headline the samples. They were kind of a co headline thing, but we became the darling child because we're just kind of the pop rock band. And I think a lot of folks as faras the Jars crowd was turned off by the samples. For some reason, I don't know if it's if they felt that they

spk_0:   39:03
probably all the pot smoke in the air.

spk_2:   39:06
Well, it could be good Christians, but for some reason we became the darlings. Matchbox 20 came on board and we were touring with them as nobody knew them. So we became instant friends and buddies and, uh, great guys and watching their kind of the sense which happened accidentally because they were getting a big push with the first single that wasn't doing anything special. In all of a sudden in Birmingham, somebody started playing push and pushed, just took off like crazy. So it was interesting being there as you saw the days of them opening for us turn into all of a sudden, more opening for them, and you could see the crowds growing with every passing show. But they're the nicest of guys and the guys that we met from 25 years ago. When we see them out now and they're coming through town and we hang out, it's the same guys. So it's like you couldn't ask for, ah better group of guys to have the success that they had, But I remember when they were opening for us, we were kind of a little bit of a season band at the time, and their management would always say, Look at these guys Every night they go onstage to kick your ass. Look at how they look. They dress their a band. You guys air individuals and he goes and look at the lead singer before he sings. Every first song he spits is gonna because I took it out. Cooley is because that's it was something I would do. For some reason, I got stay with government, spit it out as I get ready to say goodbye, first line and then, you know, it took 10 seconds for one of the girls in the video. Look at these guys, but still to this day, Rob says, he's like, Yeah, he's like, I remember our management, who they're still have today was like, You guys got to emulate the rock attitude of these guys. These guys walk up on stage and every night kill it. So it was kind of, but the great guys love him. There's still same old guys that we met 25 years ago, and I don't want you to think that the only reason I got a music was for girls, because

spk_0:   40:53
you're not fooling anybody. Power. There's a theme going on here, going

spk_2:   40:57
Jason. I mean, how did you meet your wife? Was there any music involved Enough?

spk_0:   41:01
No, actually there was he. There you go. The piggyback ongoing stories. It's interesting. When he said he was with Jars of Clay a few years ago, I got invited to perform it this UCM via wars down New Orleans and like Matt Moore, who was in big in the Christian rock world as well. I performed down there with him. Tony Melendez, this guy's awesome man. He can play the guitar with his feet. He has no arms. No, I'm serious. It's amazing. The guys He's legit, you know, and just very inspiring to see him so that lead me to similar on a national situation where Randi Davis from Providence Integrity Records, one of the biggest Christian rock labels in the world. Really, we were interested in maybe doing something with them, and they were thinking about doing like a Christian pop rock type thing with me as well. So I did actually do a record, but we never did the deal with Provident that didn't work out. But it was just interesting story, cause when you said Jars of Clay, I remember that cause I was a big fan of Jeremy Camp, who's also in that hole industry as well. And then finally, getting work with Matt Maher on them down in New Orleans was pretty cool. Well, there was a time kind of in the nineties where that stuff really kind of started to poke up Jars of clay was one band and that there were a few others. From what I remember, it, yes, which would yes, which foot Yeah, yeah,

spk_2:   42:11
yeah. Still killing

spk_0:   42:12
and even Tobymac. I think he's still doing this thing. Teoh.

spk_2:   42:14
Absolutely. It's great music. Before I went down to Nashville in 2012 I really wasn't into country music. That was kind of resistance, but it's fun listening to different types of music. And sometimes when I'm looking for some type of melodic inspirational, but on some Christian rock, I'm not. I think I'm a good person. I don't know if I'm a good Christian, but yeah, I'll listen to a lot of that music. And melodically, it's just insane. And production wise is it's insane. And I could definitely hear your voice. Yeah, in that kind of genre of music as well.

spk_0:   42:45
Jason, you seem to draw a lot from old school R and B. It seems. Do you have, like, an affection for that stuff? It seems to come through a little bit. Your music? Yes. So, like I was a big like Smokey Robinson fan. Flip Wilson. Um, I mean Jackie Wilson Wilson football some show, Yeah, and even, like do up like the Depres. My uncle was a singer as well, and he could. He turned out to do up, and I just fell in love with do it. That's why my first legitimate recording was in the still night, which was that old five saddens do up song. So you were in all that like Carolina Beach music and the like the drifters and stuff like that upcoming as well into that. But it was more like the fifties and sixties, and then the newer, newer but still old Army. But like Joe to see, like the eighties R and B, what do they call that new? Ah, new soul. Or so they added some name for that. Yeah, you so and then Like Brian McKnight and then Boyz two men Living Campbell and speaking which we, uh it's very rare that do a cover remake. But we did a Tevin Campbell remake on this new album, but that's the first time ever revealed that publicly right now that's crazy. I've heard his name. And quite a wow, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of this, I mean both you and Gore and have new records that are coming out. I'm gonna give you a chance to talk about this records now and then I'm gonna play one cut from each of those to end out this show here. Why don't we start with Goran and tell us what you just want? Some ah, Wisconsin Area Music Industry Awards for your last solo record. But you you're working on just finishing up the new one now, is that

spk_2:   44:16
right? I don't want you dio prematurely Ejaculate. Thea Awards show is April 19th. I appreciate that. You think I've already wanted for No.

spk_0:   44:27
Oh, yeah. It is just a nomination.

spk_2:   44:29
I was nominated for a singer songwriter of the year and then the album of the year. Yeah, you know what, Jason? I was like, I put this record out last year just to put out because as I'm writing all these songs down there like I've switched gears, I'm writing more now I just want to be in a room. I've got a nice little indie pub deal. I'm self sufficient. I don't need anybody's money. I'm just trying to write great songs. And when you walk into the room, I just want to write a song that it was me and you that you and I would like it. And there's a good chance that if you and I liked it, somebody else is gonna like it. Yeah, I was like, What happens? All these fuckin songs that just sit and never get hurt. The graveyard of great songs. So is my team is trying to pitch him, and we're getting some may be mild. Indie takes you up. You know, we're looking for Blake Shelton. The pick up a song. We're looking for Keith Urban, but we're not. We haven't been invited to that dance,

spk_0:   45:19
you know?

spk_2:   45:19
So we're just trying to write great songs. All these songs, air sitting there. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna pick 10 of them. That I think I could sing because I'm not a country guy. And I just saying 10 of them and tracked him a great producer outside of Nashville. Awesome. Chris Savvy produced Ah, and did all the tracks, and I just sang and put it out. I didn't know that anybody heard it. I played a couple shows. The gulf's fans liked it. Facebook liked it. Instagram elected. And all of a sudden I get a email out of the blue from the whammy assembly. Well, this was off my radar, So it was like a really nice surprise that something I put out so innocently turned into, like somebody actually hearing it and saying, you know what? This deserves a little bit of recognition. So I'm doing the same thing with this new record again. I write all the time. So I'm picking the songs that I think I could pull off. And since we're kind of writing country pop, there's definitely a country leaning sound to it. I can't sing very country. So you get a pop guy singing kind of country s detective.

spk_0:   46:15
I'm kind of digging it, though, Like your record under national sky actually checked it out. I'm I love red. I call it quits and call me on my three favorite man like a man. It's nice I like.

spk_2:   46:26
That's funny because Kali Quince is kind of a year alley, which is that

spk_0:   46:29
more? That's probably why I like a

spk_2:   46:31
sexy pop. So I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah, school. You know, I'm just writing the put great songs and a few people like it. Awesome. I'm not quit my day job. I'm actually a John knows I'm an onion farmer outside of D Buche.

spk_0:   46:45
Uh oh. You're doing another solo one. Do you expect it to be out? You know, fairly soon this

spk_2:   46:52
year? Yeah, it's We're putting the finishing touches on the last song and mastering this week, so it'll probably be I don't know, social media,

spk_0:   47:00
and you're going to give me a song to attach to this later. So yeah, we don't I don't know what song what the song is gonna be. It'll be a surprise. Look for Gordon's new record to come out sometime this year. Independently, right? I'm sure you can get it through your Facebook side. Right?

spk_2:   47:14
It'll be an iTunes. It'll be corn songs dot com

spk_0:   47:17
through the normal places. You get music?

spk_2:   47:19
Do people still go to tower Records? Is it still open?

spk_0:   47:22
If there is a vinyl resurgence I meet, A lot of people are going back to vinyl. Jason, are you doing vinyl on yours? A lot of people are pressing vinyl. Now the new record that we're gonna come. We're going to do that. But like Gholamhossein, it's all streaming now, everyone to streams. They don't really download digitally anymore. So you get the last streaming revenue but kind of crushing independent artists so alive. Artists are going to vinyl, especially when I'm doing a gig, because then their fans want that they buy one autograph and stuff so and get merchant stuff like that. It's not like back in our days. 2030 years ago, vinyl was a format to get the music out. Nowadays, it's more. It seems like a collectors like actual merch piece. You'd get signed put up on your Waller's. That's exactly and some people are going back. They like that analog feel so they'll actually they're starting to make, like, actual record players again. And you know, it's not that popular, but it is making a little bit of a comeback. It does have a certain sound to it. You know, it's it's just got a certain feel. The nostalgia kind of takes you back. It's nice.

spk_2:   48:16
I've got one. You know, Put something on there. If I'm Saturday lazy afternoon, but a little hollow notes the other day and it feels different. But it's so easy with our phones nowadays. Yeah,

spk_0:   48:28
Jason, What? Ah, what do you have going on with this new release that you're finally getting around toe? Yeah. Yeah, I tell you, I had a pretty good success with that critical album. So that was the critical acoustic version was private. Most popular songs. So recently I teamed up with a pretty awesome deejay out in Australia, KCBS like a dance remix. And so we released that remix in December. This past December and debuted Number 92 Australian Dance Structures was awesome. It also made the iTunes Top 100 pre orders, so that was pretty cool, too. We'll see how that turns out. But that's just that was more of a side thing, like a remix e p, with a lot of different artists, producers coming in and remixing it. But the actual new Pop R and B album, the album is completely done. We have a few majors, actually, kind of interested one in particular. We'll see how that turns out. You know how that game works. So right, we're hoping to get this thing out, probably with everything going on now. I mean, we're looking at maybe summer 2020. That's kind of where we're at. So we're going to hear the acoustic version of Critical from you. Yeah. I mean, we could play that one, and then I can also give you ah, teaser from the new album as well. It's the new album. I haven't really Oh, great. Yeah, I haven't really put much online of the new stuff because the producer worked with these, like, really particular like that. But I'm sure I think I can get something to where you guys at least you know, tease a little bit. So we're gonna hear critical from Jason Malki and then just a quick sample of what he has on deck. What's coming out this year. And then we're going to hear a song from Gorn Krall's new record. Goran. Is there a name for you?

spk_2:   49:53
It's called Airports and Alibis,

spk_0:   49:55
Airports and Alibis. That'll be out by the time this comes out. But we'll get to hear one of those songs. Guys, I just want to thank you for taking the time and just telling these stories and and having a chat with me tonight. Really interesting stuff, man. I it's still gonna take me a few days t get all this absorbed into my head about this thing with you. But, man, good job. Just pushing forward and getting through all that. Let's check out these tracks from you guys and thanks for coming on this show. Taking the time. Hopefully, we'll get to talk to you down the road a bit and kind of do a recap and see how things have been. Thank you. I appreciate it. I definitely had a good time talking to you guys as well. Appreciate the invite.

spk_2:   50:30
Thanks. I appreciate it. Jason has good meeting you.

spk_0:   50:32
Yeah, you to go on. Appreciate the conversation. And John, Thanks for the invite. I definitely appreciate it. We'll be in touch soon. Okay. Here is Theokoles Stick version of critical

spk_1:   50:40
by Jason Malika Oh oh, for you And you're not even still feeling in the of your keys De lingers in my mind gift Get about the day when you were mine Slowly dying from my bro Man in her Been no week time is standing still so weak from the fall I lost the will When my pride on the shell and beg for one more chance He still me You'll try Teoh understand now like dying from my way I never heard this It's critical unaided Touch Come and bring me back Teoh Give me back on my feet and help me learn how to breathe You know, way a man it with Did you write? Come with me. Oh, and here is a little teaser from Jason's new album produced by Chuck Slate. This is called day and Night. Not a lot of tonight, but you're not around. You know what gives you the world If you wanted to, you just wait. Way time And this is a cut from Goran Krall's new album, Airports and Alibis. This is called Five Miles Over Kansas. Enjoy, and we'll see you next time. No, from 30,000 it's This has been soft fast. Take part in the conversation on Facebook Search. Soft past podcast soft bass Thanks blue microphones. Visit them at blue designs dot com. The music by the sandy, honest fan join us again next episode for more behind the scenes stories and experiences of working professionals in the music industry.