Episode 1 - Dave Anderson (Atlanta Rhythm Section) & John Gifford (FAME Studio)

Welcome to Episode 1 of Soft Pass.  This maiden voyage was taped at the “Swampers” bar and grill in Florence, AL.  It’s fitting because it’s tied to both of our guests. David Anderson is a north Alabama troubadour, in addition to his time as the guitarist for Brother Cane and his current position playing guitar for Atlanta Rhythm Section, Dave has a solo acoustic show which he gigs 2-3 times a week around North Alabama and Swampers is one of his residencies. 

John Gifford III is a producer and engineer at the world famous FAME recording studios in Muscle Shoals.  The classic house band at FAME were called “The Swampers” and the bar and grill in Florence was named after this uber famous group of recording musicians.

This month Dave talks about his time with Atlanta Rhythm Section and Brother Cane, touring with Van Halen, his guitar collection and watching his son grow up in the music business.  We talked about a lot of firsts, including some of our first gigs.  John Gifford relates his experience with Lady Antebellum, and John Michaels talks about mixing Nirvana in the early 90s.

Transcript

John Michaels:   0:01
soft pass Episode one.

Dave Anderson:   0:04
Welcome to Soft Fast, hosted by John Michaels, a 30 year veteran tour manager and sound engineer for some of entertainment's most well known touring. Sit down with songwriters, musicians, producers, managers, lawyers and touring professionals. Talk about what really goes on behind the scenes in the

John Michaels:   0:27
studios, offices and on the road in the entertainment industry. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the very first episode of Soft Pass Coming to You, this one time from Swampers Bar and Grill here in Florence, Alabama. I'm your host, John Michaels, and I just want to take a quick moment here to explain the premise of the show and to introduce my co host. Soft Pass is actually an industry term. When tours go out on the road, the touring personnel will have hard laminates that they wear to set them apart from the local crew and the local bands, the local drivers, the photographers, whatever will get a sticky soft pass, which is a cloth one day pass for that event, people that you'd see what the's would typically be. Photographers, family and friends of the band, stagehands, local working crew, opening acts, stuff like that and a soft pass kind of reflects what we're doing with the show. John Gifford and I live on the back side of the business. He's in the studio over there at fame, on the creative side, working with the artists and songwriters and hired guns. I'm over on the performance side, touring with all the bands and making the myths on the road. Now that I say that, it kind of sounds like I'm getting John's leftovers. But I guess that's another conversation. The point being, we've been doing this a long time. John and I both know a good amount of notable people. Some of them are good friends. Some are just good working bodies, air touring friends. When we sit down at the catering table across from a Joe Perry or an Adam Duritz or something, we talk about things that are common to all of us. We talk about the tour, the recording session or the gear music in like a clinical sense, and sometimes we talk about putting in French drains or what material to buy at Home Depot that would best soundproof your garage. I just

Dave Anderson:   2:12
had one of those put into my parents house That's strange.

John Michaels:   2:16
Yeah, so it just runs the gamut of stuff. And the purpose of the show is to sit down with all of our friends and have those conversations that usually only happened backstage or on the tour bus and just give you a peek kind of into that world. We're gonna talk about things that happen on tour during recording sessions, will talk about life on a tour bus, life in the clubs, at the airports, in the cabs and transportation vehicles that we take all the time. We'll hear stories of amazing encounters, and we'll go over the shame and glory of choosing to work in this business and all the crazy things that happened. But without further ado, I want to introduce you to my friend John Gifford. John is very talented engineer and producer over at Fame Studios, and you have some background in the live world, and I have a little background in the studio world, which makes it easier for us toe sit down together without a lot of violence. Ultraviolet Yeah, classically, there's this hang up between live personality studio personnel. It's the difference between playing basketball and golf. The ball still needs to go in the hole, but it's a whole different method and machine to get it there. So I'm just curious. Why did you choose to go to that side of the field of Studio Side,

John Gifford:   3:28
I hoped would like one show at you and a when I was a student over there, the show ended. It was Lady Antebellum. After it was done, we spent four hours breaking down sound the lives, the stage we loaded up to like diesel trucks. And then all the like sound engineers. They had another gig. They had to get two at two. In the morning. They left it out of 4.5 hours. Five. I was like, Yeah, I live two miles from the studio. Takes me six minutes. Get there. I sleep in my own bed every night.

Dave Anderson:   3:59
Can't argue with that.

John Michaels:   4:00
No, it's certainly more attractive. The other voice that you're hearing is our guest on our very first show. I'm so happy that you're here and able to do this with us. Really proud to have you as our first guest around here. It's really cool that we can do this at this place. We'll talk about some of that history in a bit. But please welcome to the show. North Alabama troop Adore musician From such bans is Brother Cain and Atlanta Rhythm section in the Dave Anderson project. Dave Anderson

Dave Anderson:   4:27
Thank you for having a good to be here,

John Michaels:   4:29
and we're actually taping this Live from the Swampers Bar and Grill will not actually in the bar because there's a game going on. It's pretty loud in there.

John Gifford:   4:37
Alabama versus Unless you

John Michaels:   4:39
The L S U game is overcame. Its on in here, too.

Dave Anderson:   4:42
I'm just looking over once every 30 seconds.

John Michaels:   4:45
This place was obviously named after the group of musicians who kind of made the place where John works famous to some extent, right? You come out here as you do every week, play these local shows. Dave's a big musician. He's been in the industry with over 30 years, right?

Dave Anderson:   5:03
Yeah, I guess so. More than that, for sure, I just want to get away with 30 years. Sounded pretty

John Michaels:   5:07
good. That's about right. He's one of these rare people. I've known some of them in my life that they just they have to play. Is that what drives you to do this because you're doing like three or four solo gigs a week. Well,

Dave Anderson:   5:19
I don't know what else I would do. I don't have any other job skills. That's it

John Gifford:   5:24
until the to myself. Every day. It's like if I didn't do this anymore, what would I do?

John Michaels:   5:29
Speaking of that, when did you know? Because every one of us that is in this for life now there was a certain point in time where we were doing music, whatever it was for us. For me, I was doing front of house sound and learning my chops as I was had a daytime job at a radio station, and I'm sure people deliver pizzas and work other part time jobs as they're doing music. So when did you know this is something I'm going to start focusing everythingon?  

:   0:00


Dave Anderson:   6:44
It was, since I could crawl, Really. My dad was a drummer, never played professionally because in his generation, just there were not. Opportunities was before the Beatles when he played drums in the fifties and he had the great career, is a systems analyst for my calm and controlled data, but I watched him play my sister be helped my mom fold laundry and I'd be watching him play and play in my toy guitar, so I mean, it was just something that I was gonna dio. I mean, I had a couple sign post moments growing up that that said, This is exactly what I'm going to do. But it was never a question. That's always what I was gonna do.dio. So there were times where you were like, Look at, you know, GM is offering me this job. It's got full benefits. I'm gonna get paid this much amount of money, but I really I have to cut back on my guitar playing. Did you have those crossroads where you're like I got

Dave Anderson:   0:00
  No, I never had a real job ever, Honestly, have never had a real job, Really. Musician. I worked at Tommy Shepherd's Guitar Store for about six months, probably around 1989 or 90 and I didn't sell one guitar. I sold strings. That's and and he's like, I love you day, but you're just not cut out for this. So that was my own. That's a and that's not even a real jobs. It's a music store,

John Michaels:   7:09
right? So let's play this game you share the name with Ah Hawk Wind Musician. There was a David Anderson Haukland that yes, well cleaned. The owner of famous Dave's Barbecue chain.

Dave Anderson:   7:26
Yes, I knew that

John Michaels:   7:27
The Baron of Ipswich, Ipswich. I thought it was lip shit lips. Just the, ah wide receiver for the Denver Broncos

Dave Anderson:   7:36
that when I've seen

John Michaels:   7:38
a governor, a judge in two bishops. So the question is, how do you set yourself apart from all these other Dave Anderson's? Is it the hair?

Dave Anderson:   7:47
I think I'm just a little bit more of an idiot than all those people. The hair against its you know, having a generic name is definitely not une z thing.

John Michaels:   7:55
There's the governor of a judge here, so don't sell yourself too short, right? You played with Brother Cain for the last two albums. When did you start touring with them? 93.

Dave Anderson:   8:08
They finished their tour off the first album. It's odd because my good friend Glen Maxey left the band and we grew up in a garage bands in high school. I didn't really take this place because Roman, who played guitar, moved to base and I took his place. So it was right after they finished the tour on the first sound, which was late 90

John Michaels:   8:24
four. And then before that you were in local bands around here. We actually met a long, long time ago in a local hunts filled Yeah, when did you start really playing out? I had to have been before. Bandai had

Dave Anderson:   8:37
garage bands since fifth grade. We had a band that played smoke on the water, instrumental at 1/5 grade talent contest that Weatherly School and my parents showed up with their cassette deck with two mikes. I recorded it, and it's so funny because it's the most asi nine sounding shit you've ever heard the sound of the applause at the end because, you know, this is a bunch. It's the whole elementary school there and they've never seen their friends with electric guitars, and it didn't matter how bad we were. They were just so excited, just like anybody. And I remember reading a book where Bono said the first time that our band played it was play the war sound. Everybody was so exciting. It's more than one person playing too loud instruments. It's exciting. It's just is

John Gifford:   9:21
when you can feel it pressing in on you and everything. Yeah,

Dave Anderson:   9:25
and I know you guys have dealt with it.

John Michaels:   9:27
I'll never forget the first time I ever heard 10,010 to 20,000 people scream all at the same time. I mean, you've heard that, John. Maybe you've heard them.

Dave Anderson:   9:36
You've seen shows, right?

John Gifford:   9:37
That's so in sync. When I was 14 i that meaning women yelling inside the Coliseum. You

John Michaels:   9:44
don't get away from that. So you remember it for the rest.

Dave Anderson:   9:46
I'm so much older than you because my first experience that that was Elvis 75. I was eight years

John Michaels:   9:55
old. You saw Elvis at eight. Yes. Yes, your dad and mom.

Dave Anderson:   9:59
My mom and dad bought tickets. They put me in a leisure suit. We brought binoculars and went and saw him. And it was leisure suit when the lights went down. And they have started 2001 space Oddity, oddity, Odyssey And all the flashbulbs. Man, it was absolutely incredible. Just that, you know, some of them say it doesn't matter who you're saying. When you feel that energy in a room and people go nuts, that's pretty big.

John Gifford:   10:24
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Really bad I'm so jealous of you right now. You get to see the king.

Dave Anderson:   10:29
Wait. When people we have these conversations always waiting. Oh, yeah. Okay. I think the only thing that could maybe be that is the Beatles. But that's debatable to

John Gifford:   10:38
it is totally different because the Beatles, obviously with the greatest bands of all time, sir, Elvis is the greatest artist of all time, in my opinion.

Dave Anderson:   10:47
And it was a real concert because you could hear him because the Beatles concerts Apparently it was just there, right there for 20 minutes, shaking their bombs and nobody could hear him. And And we've been listening Teoh live from Aloha Album. So I mean, I knew basically his seventies show

John Michaels:   11:00
was he given the scarves out? Yeah. Yeah, all

Dave Anderson:   11:03
that stuff. Ladies fanning all that stuff. It was great. It's funny, cause my wife years and years later we found out that we were the same show.

John Michaels:   11:12
What? Really? Yeah, that's uncanny. Was it local or was it was. Hospital was

Dave Anderson:   11:17
one of the first shows at the BBC. It was v BCC then,

John Michaels:   11:21
right? That's amazing that you were able to experience that at such a young age

Dave Anderson:   11:26
lives. Life changing, totally life changing.

John Gifford:   11:28
First time I ever saw you perform is at the BBC. It is opening for Ah! Oh, man, My mind just went

Dave Anderson:   11:36
ZZ Top. You were there with

John Gifford:   11:37
your grandmother and she loved you too. That's great. How come

John Michaels:   11:43
no one ever brings up the fact that the two guys that have beards are not named Frank Beard? It is fun, huh? Well, let's talk about this a little bit. You toured with Brother Cade with Van Halen, Aerosmith, Robert Plant, Skin Erred Candlebox. Let's talk about Candlebox. They probably don't have any money to sue us.

Dave Anderson:   12:04
They don't, um, way did a lot of shows with Candlebox.

John Gifford:   12:08
Isn't Peter clipped the guitarist?

Dave Anderson:   12:11
Yes, Peter Clip. The best story I have about Peter, it's Ah, we did a lot of shows together in Roman, our bass player and Peter and I would kind of gravitate towards drinking when everybody was down for the count. We're sitting around and just Roman out of Nover, says Man Pete. Every night for the beginning of far behind, you fuck up that guitar riff on, he said. Really, it's like the cat when they say his girlfriend's fat Really? Um hey, just was floored, and he never mess it up again. The rest of the tour e mailed. It's like this. Their biggest hit. It is the intro. Yeah, that's one of the first things I think. About what? Tour? With Candlebox. But they were really fun. There were a great band, and

John Michaels:   12:54
he knew he was screwed that up. How do you know what to correct if you didn't know? Look on his

Dave Anderson:   12:59
face that he really did not know he was screwing it up and and I would never have said it. But Romans got a lot more balls, and they kind of say what you want to say right at the time that most people wouldn't say it, but it worked. He fixed this wrists. So

John Michaels:   13:15
can we just pause for a second and talk about Atlanta rhythm section? Because I think that what you just described there is a Steve Stone moment.

Dave Anderson:   13:24
It's Yeah, it is. Steve Stone moment. First. He just wasn't there. Yeah, right. Well, he doesn't screw up riffs, though, so that's no,

John Michaels:   13:30
no, no, no. But I'm just saying, saying the thing that nobody wants to say I made a special question that I have to ask you. Can we just talk about how much fun Rodney, Justo and Steve Stone are together in a room with conversation? Flying around like has never been such a ridiculous line of conversation going on that you just used laughing so hard you couldn't even take part in the conference.

Dave Anderson:   13:54
Well, the thing is, Rodney's like 10 steps ahead of everybody else in the room. He just that wit. I mean, he's in his mid seventies and he's much sharper than anybody around him, and Steve is very sharp, But he's so obtuse. Yeah, then you throw Dean Daughtry in there, so it's Yeah, it's it's just back and watch. But I am not running my mouth too much to most of what I say. Does it mean anything?

John Michaels:   14:14
Some of those backstage conversations? It's funny because we do a lot of these package shows and there's different vibes coming from the different dressing rooms for all the bands, especially when we're doing a big package that any types you've walked by the air s dressing room, all you hear is just laughter and like loud, boisterous, happy kind of people. That's

Dave Anderson:   14:36
good thing because most of the bands I've toured with have been like that. It would get along and joke, and I mean, there's always always disagreements. I mean, it's just there's there's no way around it. But there's always humor. I hear about bands that hate each other, and I think that's gotta suck. That's really gotta suck to hate each other. And, you know, I've heard all the stories. You know, people have their own buses are. Of course, if you can afford it. That's great, especially about families. But sometimes they do it just because they don't like each other.

John Michaels:   15:04
I mean, have you ever witnessed that in the studio? That's usually where it flares up.

Dave Anderson:   15:08
Oh, you would think it would flare up there a lot

John Michaels:   15:10
like we're somebody. They're just having an argument, and then it just spirals. You don't have to name names.

John Gifford:   15:15
The funniest one of those would be like these three brothers, you know, they couldn't fire each other because they're all siblings. One person would say something and just seem normal, but the other one could have just been looked at wrong by many would have blowed up. They blew up the second day we were there. We ended up not even getting started for five hours because they were in, like, one of the ice. Oh, boots, talking it out for about five hours.

Dave Anderson:   15:39
The stuff that happened the previous day.

John Gifford:   15:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was That was the worst was when it was actually family members because they couldn't, like, do anything. They just set their knew how to push each other's, but without even like, saying anything. So just like it would in its letter, Yeah, yeah, it just instant flare up without any just one quick. But usually if it's in the studio, it's normally like a no overdubs happening. And someone, it could be our six. And they're just having trouble with, like, one lick or whatever and then, like someone else in the band, just get super irritated and impatient there, like going back and forth, you know, that's where it starts going up in the studio.

Dave Anderson:   16:20
That can be, yeah, there's, I mean, there's so much psychology in the studio.

John Gifford:   16:25
Back when you used to drink a lot back of the studio and stuff like that, would things flare up really fast or anything like that are

Dave Anderson:   16:33
We never drank that much in the studio.

John Gifford:   16:35
Okay, Okay.

John Michaels:   16:36
Was always out the back door where you drank it

Dave Anderson:   16:38
towards the end of the sessions when it was like, OK, we've been doing this. We start having some drinks, you know, it's funny, cause one of my best tracks I laid down was three for four in the morning when I thought I was done and we're watching South Park. Does it just come out drinking Scotch? Kelly Gray and Damon said, Hey, we needed a guitar overdub to be a texture thing on this part And it was lead my follow on the Wish People album and I went in there, and it's like in 10 minutes I had this, like edge Dave Gilmour clean delay thing through the whole song. They were like, Well, shit, that's what it needed. That's one of my proudest boast studio. But, you know, I was I'd signed off three hours before ready for us to get out of there. That's

John Michaels:   17:22
crazy. How, with some of that magic happens, you're doing a one take just to get sounds, or just to kind of make sure things they're grooving. Headphone mix or whatever, and then it ends up being the take you use.

Dave Anderson:   17:33
Oh, sure, yeah.

John Gifford:   17:34
And then you adjusted the sounds halfway through the song. So you have to go and be like, Well, that's the take and you have to figure out to make the first half. So, like the back after extra editing in the back.

John Michaels:   17:45
Wow, you guys think that all we do is we just can hit a button and it fixes whatever the problem, like you type the problem in into the computer and then hit Enter and it just fixes it. I think that's the musicians. Take on what we

Dave Anderson:   17:58
dislike. When John Lennon told Geoff Emerick to figure it out when he did started Fields forever and then they just Luckily the pitch in the speed matched up when they put it the same together, which is and gets a lot of credit, what she deserves so much. But that one was a happy accident.

John Michaels:   18:15
Well, speaking of guitars, as you brought that up before and I wanted to ask, you've had a lot of guitars over the years. What was the first guitar and what is the current guitar and then can you just touch on some notable ones that you've had in between? Or maybe still have.

Dave Anderson:   18:32
Okay, that my first guitar was a garage sale nylon string that I got in second grade and I loved it. It was easy to play. Just an acoustic. Yeah, Yeah, it was like a classical leader. But nylon strings is so easy toe for beginner to play, and then I

John Michaels:   18:45
But what was the first electric

Dave Anderson:   18:47
for selection was a Sears catalog Global SG copy. I got it. Christmas 1/5 grade, and it was It was huge. Just have electric. It's our And I gave it to my cousin a few years later and I don't know where it went. But my first real guitar, that was the name brand was a Gibson marauder. It was a really low grade Gibson. It's actually that was the one that Paul standing would with break with kiss because they were so cheap. They just sent in a, you know, a month's worth, and he'd break him and they get some. Or but it was it was magic for me. I mean, they all were getting the first electric guitar that global SC cop. It was really cool. Plus, my guitar teacher, Smokey Stover, rest in peace. Who was a jazz guy? He had one of those. And Peg Gemma nyse was just like those. All those impacts that have the Yeah, you know what? I'm talking todo once and it was I think it's single 15. And to me, it was huge. It was in fifth grade, and I didn't know what the word overdrive, man distortion. I didn't know what any of that shit, man. I just knew when I cranked it up. That's the way it was supposed to sound. And my parents were so freaking

John Michaels:   19:49
cool. Did you get that? Amp

Dave Anderson:   19:51
I had it for about a year and I finally gave it back to him. You know, be grossly. That's was the sound. That was the thing. I learned how to get feedback and talk myself by accident. Pinch harmonics, which is the Barry Bailey thing. And that guitar on that aunt was That was my That was my

John Michaels:   20:08
school. What was your first distortion pedal? The boss overdrive. It was a rat pack.

John Gifford:   20:12
Let's say a rat. Yeah, that's resident bits.

Dave Anderson:   20:16
Yeah, that's that was a classic. Yeah,

John Gifford:   20:19
Jevon Echoplex

Dave Anderson:   20:20
Never did. I wish. Uh, you know,

John Michaels:   20:23
So you had this SG copy guitar. And then when you've got into your first real band that was playing out, what did you just have still have that guitar had you gone through? A few are

Dave Anderson:   20:34
I've gone through a few. I had Tommy Sheppard strapped with my first, which I'd actually bought a Squire Strat and back. Wouldn't Squires had real would the bodies for really good. I had him bastardize that I got a new neck talking sick neck, new pickups and Nicole my body. Who does? He still is a guitar tech for you. Name it little feet. The girls have backed up prints on that last. You're right. He still has that guitar. Has a pink flamingo on it. Um And then, you know, I bought I went through a lot of gear. I was always one of those guys that wouldn't spend a lot of money on gear. I've spent more money on gear now because life's too short, But I always thought that a lot of things were so overpriced, and now it's even more true. I mean, there's a diminishing returns. If you buy spend $1000 on a guitar. The more you spend

John Michaels:   21:19
the minute you walk out of the store, it's 25% less

Dave Anderson:   21:22
right. Just like India car

John Gifford:   21:23
after certain wallets. Craftsmanship? Yeah, Pearl inlay. Yeah. Yeah,

Dave Anderson:   21:28
and it's visuals. I really didn't give a shit about all that stuff. I

John Gifford:   21:32
about my Les Paul doesn't even have an arch top. Yeah, just a block of wood was vigilant. Les Paul Special, you know? But

John Michaels:   21:40
also it's a heavy block

John Gifford:   21:42
right, though, but, I mean, that's the thing is I recession Will. Will. Earlier he looked over is like, I need someone thump ogres picked it up and it sounded like Will McFarlane playing guitar. I want

Dave Anderson:   21:55
a great you know, I learned that kind of early when I was touring with BB and CC wine and our tech had worked for Eric Johnson. Oh, yeah, he is.

John Michaels:   22:04
Oh, yeah, of course.

Dave Anderson:   22:05
We went to see him open up for Rush. Probably 1990.

John Michaels:   22:09
That's a lot of guitar weasel re on

Dave Anderson:   22:11
one stage. And God. Yeah, right. So we're backstage and I meet Eric Johnson. He's playing a Strat through a fender champ and he's playing. I'm going sounds like you're right. That was one of my first lessons because his pedal board, it's like the size of mission control and still sounded the same. And it's the fingers. I never spent a lot of money on here, but I would try to find the next. This is back when BRAC gear was I got the the rial tube to pre amp all these things trying to find the sound and older guys like Kelvin and Bill Heinz. I mean, they wouldn't tell me specifically, it's in your fingers, but I hear them talk and realize it's in their fingers. And when I saw that thing with Johnson and I was already playing professionally, still looking for the gear, that's gonna make me sound better. And that's what made me start thinking about how long I could milk a note. What part of my fingers touching the string right and how you you know David Gilmour

John Michaels:   23:05
tone in the the interaction. I mean, I know Jock Bartley

Dave Anderson:   23:08
A what? A great player.

John Michaels:   23:09
He needs to have some of the guitar coming back up from the monitors at him so he can get the right kind of interaction. I'm not a guitar player. I don't know anything about it, But sure, I imagine there's some interplay between the pickups and right sound coming out at the guitar. Yeah, to make those sustained notes and such. So

Dave Anderson:   23:26
you guys ever had guitar players go to the studio monitors if they're cutting in the room?

John Gifford:   23:31
Oh, yeah. We've even done crazy things like taken acoustic guitar and plug it into a guitar just because it's so hollow. And if you want to get that crazy feedback or try to light really working acoustics or wild or anything with a hollow body or similar whole body usually resonate feedback. Really cool. But the other day I was sitting there recording a guy he was trying to win. These epic little been things, but I made him sit there for, like, 25 minutes been the note. But as he was bending it like rotating in front of his app to get like an extra little bit of Wu in there. Whatever. Yeah, yeah, that's really cool.

Dave Anderson:   24:09
That's one of the keys is finding those sweet spots.

John Gifford:   24:12
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But that's what's fun about it.

John Michaels:   24:15
Yeah, with a RS Now you you play a Les Paul that you've had for a while. I think I've seen you with it quite a bit.

Dave Anderson:   24:22
It's actually a Tommy Sheppard custom to

John Gifford:   24:24
the sparkle Gonta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long is Tommy Sheppard been in business? He's

Dave Anderson:   24:29
been doing it since the mid seventies. Okay, it's having music stores, okay? And I think you started building guitars. I think the early eighties on and I could be wrong,

John Gifford:   24:38
because when I lived there and hustle, there wasn't many music stores, so I went over to his place a couple of times. But it was about the time that you played on the Rob Aldridge album. All of a sudden, I start seeing everybody with T Shepherd guitars.

Dave Anderson:   24:52
Both Rob's have one more than one, and

John Gifford:   24:54
Billy Smart started playing one, and everybody started having them left and right. They're phenomenal.

Dave Anderson:   25:00
They're really great. And it's funny because some of its guitars he puts a lot of workmanship into, like the 3 35 that he's been making for Robert. They've been kind of put on the back burner. That's looks amazing. He's one of those guys that does exquisite work, but he sees the simplicity of what makes guitars good, and he's all about. If somebody wants a commission, something with in ladies and all that stuff, he could do it. But this simplicity in the most simple route, which I think fender kind of nobody's beat fender on those kind of designs. But he gets that. And so there's a mojo to his guitars that it's a streamline thing. Basically, if you strum it acoustically, it's going to sound good,

John Gifford:   25:39
right? Right, right, good residents.

Dave Anderson:   25:41
Yeah, yeah, Spinal Tap residents, right? You could have a bite. Still be playing thieves guitars, And it's funny because when I was doing the black jacket, Pink Floyd thing, um, I had he had built a sparkle Stratocaster for himself like 15 years ago, and I was like, Oh, I love that guitar! But you know, he built it for himself, right? Not that he slacks on his relationship with with other people. There is a certain amount of care when you're building something for yourself, and I call them said, I need a Strat because I'm doing these shows on borrowing strands to do this David Gilmour thing. And he said, Well, I fell out of love with Goldie. I'll sell it to you. He sold me for stupid Price. And then I said, I need a spare and it's funny because he had, um like I was talking about my my old Squire.

John Michaels:   26:29
You didn't actually need a spare. You just wanted another good

Dave Anderson:   26:31
time. But I did it because because to have a spare, I wanted another strap myself. I kind of like something with the Dave Gilmour look with the black body black Picard, white pickups, Maple neck. Any common back, he said, Come down the shop. This is like two hours later and I came down. That was done, and he had my father, who is a great guitar player from the Huntsville scene. I think you stop playing out live. About 10 years ago, he was last. Gigi have his cause it, Mama, but he played with everybody, won his old tea Shepherd next, and Tommy found one of those old Squire strapped bodies from back when they made riel bodies for the Squires. Put it together in that guitar is probably better than his goal guitar. They put it together, just had this mojo, and it's It's my favorite strike.

John Michaels:   27:14
It's amazing when you confined one of those luthiers that just know what they're doing. There's a guy in Milwaukee, Denny Rowan. He could just do magic with any guitar, and people go to him year after year. I think he does the Smashing Pumpkins guitars and allow a lot of other people, but it does take a craftsman to know what they're doing

Dave Anderson:   27:34
for sure. Now my KUSA guitars. Danny Davis, who's a NASA engineer. Have you seen you got seen in his guitars? That's the first time I've ever spent more than $1000 on a guitar, and he gave me a good deal. But this is like a $5000 guitar, his guitars air like complete works of art and um, I mean his It's just incredible.

John Michaels:   27:56
Is it all? Pearl inlaid

Dave Anderson:   27:57
it. So it's got It's got all the fancy stuff, all the fancy stuff. I got a super stupid deal on the sister 12 string that he built. Hey was kind enough to say that I helped sell a few guitars, so he gave me the minor. If I could say it of the free deal on the 12 string, which is another $4000 guitar. But you know, and I've owned some guitars with endorsements that are like, you know, I had a $1500 to come acoustic that was brilliant, right? Right. I don't know that I would have paid for it, but now that I have some really good guitars, it's like I said, I do

John Michaels:   28:29
see, you know, let's clear something up about the sponsorship or the endorsement because I was dealing with this a little bit, too, with Blue this week. It's not like and they do expect you to give some kind of feedback on. I mean, I imagine you guys get gear to try out down it fame a lot, don't you? Do they send you Mike's and stuff and they do ask you? They call, they do follow ups and they want to know How did it play? How do you know I had to do reviews on the gear that I got from Blue when I got the endorsement? But they I mean, there is some something more to it than people just giving you studying. Eddie gave you an AMP. But yeah,

John Gifford:   29:04
it's all about the relationship. Your foreman with people at that point. You know, me and my blue rep, We're buddies. I love talking to him on the phone, Kev. But then again, I've also formed great relationships with, Like, J just Josh. He's from just south of most of shows, so, you know, for in a great relationship with him. But, I mean, you give both ways because it obviously benefits both parties and everything, right? I try

John Michaels:   29:32
to test stuff out and use it. No, no to certain extremes. Like if somebody is giving me a set of headphones, I'm going to use him in his many capacities as I can use live. I'll use them recording. I'll use them in the. When I was doing radio, I would try and radio and just you don't find out what they're a good tool for.

John Gifford:   29:51
And that's why you don't really just accept anything that wants. Someone wants to, to write because you have to realize from their end. Yeah, that might have been a $4000 guitar, but the difference in him selling two or three guitars is difference from in the meeting. Okay, for the year. Great for sure. Not all the time you just don't want except a mall. That's why you're really careful with who you accept. Endorsements was

Dave Anderson:   30:16
sure, because it's it's a reflection on you. Zach's two ways. If you're behind it yourself, then it makes some of your integrity question. And then it makes there's I've been in that situation.

John Michaels:   30:25
Yeah, there's gear we wouldn't take. I mean,

John Gifford:   30:27
like the blue bottle for us. We have one and asked, and by it's one of the most amazing vocal Mike's I've ever used on.

John Michaels:   30:34
People say that their garbage. I've heard people praise him. I do the same thing. I do it on an individual basis. There's been some earthworks Mike's that I thought were just fantastic. Where's some pro guys are like those air garbage. You know, I think everything has its application,

John Gifford:   30:49
but then again, it's like everything does like, you know, I've also had $100 a k G on a Tom right next to the other Tom Michaels. $1400 they sounded exactly the same. So it's like it's not always about the price on him. That Tom sounded really good. Ah, all

John Michaels:   31:09
right, let's talk about touring a little bit before we run out of time here. When you were out with Brother Cain supporting those albums and they were Brother Cain had four top 10 hits. Two number ones

Dave Anderson:   31:20
at rock radio. Not it. Not it, Pop.

John Michaels:   31:22
Can you name?

Dave Anderson:   31:22
I could name that the number once. All right. Got a shame. Full sign on end. Full sign on, um, which Van Halen borrowed for song later and lie in the bed I make. And I know some of the top tens were Well, it

John Michaels:   31:35
says, Got no shame was a number to weaken. Let's just like I lie in the bed and full shine on says clinically Depends

Dave Anderson:   31:43
on what sharp but one of the rock charts. I know that got no shame was number one. I wasn't on that record, so I don't have a dog in the fight.

John Michaels:   31:50
Right? Right. There's a number six. There's one that got upto probably,

Dave Anderson:   31:54
um uh, hard act to follow that don't satisfy that. Don't satisfy me up.

John Michaels:   32:02
I mean, Brother Cain was a big act for quite a few years and you toured with some big acts, so we did

Dave Anderson:   32:08
really well live. We did really well at radio. We didn't sell shit for records, and we had. It was It's funny how that happens. Well, I mean, basically are A and A and R department was non existent. Our A and R was our radio promo P

John Michaels:   32:21
O U r with Atlantic as well.

Dave Anderson:   32:23
No, we were in certain label here. We were version, but Virgin America didn't have anybody. That was any maverick kind of A and R department. All there are acts were, you know, U K artists and the acts that they had that were important already developed their own career. Like the Pumpkins, Billy Corgan, people that either had their underground through indie had something or they were established in today didn't break acts. But our radio promo department was our A and R department. They would listen to demos. They would listen a work in progress, to say That's a single that's not a single. We had meetings with the different distribution headquarters. We'd go meet all the people who work there, management would by pizza and beer. We'd all meet each other, put faces to the names and to no avail, like we had markets like Dallas Minneapolis markets that we that we killed that we were all over the radio and this before I tunes and Napster wasn't even really. But I mean, you had to have physical copies in a store. I remember because all we had to do when we weren't doing sound check his walk around, go to record stores and do stuff like that and see how we're doing

John Michaels:   33:26
where you had to do the radio promo to where you go, sit and play for a

Dave Anderson:   33:30
trying to saying it. Eight oclock in the morning, but I go to record stores. It would be just amazing that there was no product in the stores. There's always finger pointing. People said. Well, the vans music wasn't undeniable. Well, you know, we were doing good at radio. There's always finger pointing, but the thing is, it's our label. Could not seem it was the brand that did the distribution, and I still don't remember if they were owned by the same Am I umbrella or not? But they were different and cities we couldn't get those entities to work cause we didn't have executive power in the American version of Virgin Records, the puppetry to make a list things, work together. I'll always wonder if we sold more records.

John Michaels:   34:10
Did it seem at some point they were shining you guys. That's what I saw with a lot of acts that I was on the road with. It had the same kind of treatments, and then the album just didn't go anywhere like Citizen King, I think, sold. It was like a $4 million deal, and they they did like under 100,000 records on their release. And it was the whole gamut of like, We're going to do this for you guys. You're going here going here. You're going to do these shows and it all kind of happened. But the bigger plan never happened.

Dave Anderson:   34:39
They didn't really care enough about us to shine us. I mean, it was not even that good. If it like I said, if it weren't for radio promotion, we would have done shit right. We did a lot of shows that were. That's kind of like another version of Pale of radio shows like All the Big

John Michaels:   34:54
We'll play your song this many times a week for the do this

Dave Anderson:   34:57
show for free again. Had there been parked in the stores doing those free radio shows because we played with everybody. We play with Green Day. We play with food, fighters, pump you name it. We've played shows with all the bands that were out when we were out and it helped us. It helped us it at radio. But again, had there been product that's and radio people love this. We knew how to promote. We knew how toe promote ourselves up being bullshit as we like to making friends. And sometimes radio people are gross. Yeah, oddly oddly Freed's quote that I've always loved, but they're just gross and they're not all gross, But there are some, but But you know, the whole thing is just to make friends and just try to bill relationships.

John Michaels:   35:36
Let's go back to the touring side of it a bit specifically when So when you did the Van Halen tour just picking one of the big tours, for instance, tell people what that's like. I mean, I know what it's like to be on the backside of an arena tour. There's a lot of stuff going on.

Dave Anderson:   35:53
It was monstrous for May personally, because that was one of my biggest influences ever. I missed my 10 year high school reunion because I was on tour with Van Halen, which is

John Michaels:   36:01
cool. This is a band that you idolized coming up as a guitar player

Dave Anderson:   36:05
when I was talking earlier about the two moments in my life when one of them was when we played and fifth grade did smoke in the water. The next one was when I was a sophomore complete geek and played Eruption in front of the pep rally in the high school, which is the high school, about 2000 people. That's awesome. We tour with Van Halen. It was like one of the last shows we did. After two months, I kept one to tell Eddie the story and he came to our dressing room. The guys said Tell him, Tell him, Tell him and I told him and he just gave you a big hug. It said, Dave, that's a cool story. Be able to be there and hang out with him. Me watching from the side of stage than me. What? Watch him watch me from the side of ST.

John Michaels:   36:44
Watching him is one thing, but that's weird doing your part of the show and you turn And you see him? Yeah. It was pretty incredible. Yeah. I mean, how do you keep a composure at that? You know, you know, you played your dude your salad. You just happen to look to the to the left. And and there's Eddie. And what do you dio?

Dave Anderson:   37:03
It was I'd already met him. So there was already report. So if it had been the first show that we did with them and I had met him, I would have freaked out. But he'd already hung out with us. Hadn't been really friendly. So it just like, Hey, there's edge. But I did still have a pitch myself. Moment Go. Yeah, that's a That's not just add. That's Eddie freakin Van Halen. Did

John Michaels:   37:22
those guys ever come out on the stage with you at like, because back, let me explain something. Back in those days, touring was a bit different. Nowadays, bands will take each other out for dinner to say how much we've enjoyed touring with you. But back then, if you really liked a band, you would do what we call the tour prank to them. And the more you liked him, the nastier the Sir Frank seemed to be sometimes, right? Was there any kind of that friendly ribbing that talking shit kind of

Dave Anderson:   37:51
now with Van Halen? But Candlebox? We had silly string each other, the right stuff like that. It wasn't a prank, but with the Van Halen thing. And I'm always kind of conservative on interviews and stuff, but I think I can speak frankly on this one. So it was weird because the last second last show we did in Fresno, I'm sitting there with Damon in our dressing room, and their tour manager says the brothers want to talk to you, Eddie and Alex. So they bring us in. We're talking of Eddie and Alex and Alex. Hey, didn't speak much, but he said, We're giving you an extra 20 minutes and each of you 1500 bucks personally for tonight. Just as a thank you for the tour tour manager comes back in and says, You all sit tight. And then here comes Sammy and Mike Anthony, who? That's a whole other set of stories, and it was Sami's birthday. So they bring in a stripper. It's it's Dame and me in Van Halen and it's a stripper there for Sammy's birthday on. I did easily the geekiest thing I could ever do because she got right in front of me. I thought she was kind of nasty, right? But she got right for me. I just want you guys looked to me like I was complete giver. Uh, e getting cool after that. Be sitting there going, Okay? These are people that I was am, you know, a fan of and I'm sharing this moment with him at the end of the tour. Yeah, it's really weird.

John Michaels:   39:12
Those air, the kind of moments that we all get to experience is being working professionals in this business. John, have you ever had one of those crazy moments where you're accountant? How maney singles you have in your wallet, and then you turn around and you know, Clive Davis. Is there something?

John Gifford:   39:28
Oh, I've definitely had the moments where it's like, Wow, I have $2 to my name. But then somehow 10 day album a book out, it's like I got money.

Dave Anderson:   39:38
I think what he said that was like people that show up there because, I mean, I've seen pictures of you guys with Libano, and I mean Steven Tyler, You've had a lot of people come through there

John Gifford:   39:49
earlier. Was it this year? Last year I walked out from the front and it was like, Boom, Gallagher was standing there and I was I was like plastic. Like I don't get star struck But I saw him, but I just went, Whoa, this is cool. He's like, I'm here. That's awesome. Hey, didn t want to see the studio or anything. He just Hey was performing and Huntsville later that night. He just kind of came in because the guy that he has a band that travels with him, the guy wanted to come check out her studio because he heard we had uneven everything. And hey was just kind of more like looking as colleagues, like All right, come on, let's go. You know, what about

Dave Anderson:   40:28
some of the superstar You don't have to name names, but for me personally, I've met so many famous people like I jammed on stage it sound. Check with Whitney Houston, who was super nice. Oh, you don't have to name names, but you've had so many superstars, especially the last five years, with the reemergence with the documentary and get the respect totally are They mostly is cool is it gets in. My experience is most of the famous people are cool. Very few of them are dicks, But they're mostly cool, right?

John Gifford:   40:54
I'm in a weird situation because I feel like we get kind of people in their best. We had a really big artist come in, They're assistant. Their security guard was like, You're gonna get special parts of this cause they don't get to be, you know, late teenage early twenties version of themselves in the studios with all their friends. Create music there, too busy having to play the role of them every day. You know, a calling in p A's two weeks later having a cussed people out because things are getting done.

Dave Anderson:   41:20
Sure stuff they have to do.

John Gifford:   41:22
Yeah, their daughter's sick in New York, but they have to go to L. A for some interview, you know, stuff like that. But when they come in, they're they're usually very respectful and know where there are Love the history. I've had multiple, like huge artists, like start crying when they're in their just cause. They're filling it. And normally, if someone gets to a certain level. I noticed there kind of humble, usually or there on the track of what a record labels making them do. You know, you tell they should be able to do whatever they're doing but you until they're just going by the calendar in their book and they're just ride the train. Usually it's the guitarist in the group or someone like that that you got to kind of fluff up or it's usually someone in the one person in the group, not necessarily the artist himself. You just kind of kind of like hold him and tell him they did a good job and stuff like that. Usually the artists, when they come in are really nice, and they're very respectful. They love me and like the halls, especially when Rick was alive. They love that, But I will say this. We had Gregg Allman and they're recording in. He's in there. It's like Day two or three recording, and Rick pulls him up to his office and pitches and songs for an hour and 1/2 you know, but they love the fact that he walked back down and kind of shook his hands like mad. He's still the second person? Yeah. So it's just like, yeah, a lot of people love coming in the fame just for that kind of reason. They're so

Dave Anderson:   42:46
they're disarmed by the history.

John Gifford:   42:47
Right? Right, right, right,

John Michaels:   42:49
Totally. It's It's hard not to be humble when you walk in that place.

John Gifford:   42:52
I've had a couple of men. I wouldn't even say they were dicks or anything. But there you get a little smugness out of some. But it's usually someone who had, like, one, maybe two hits 25 30 years ago or something, and you don't know their name is off bad or something.

Dave Anderson:   43:08
So they already have a chip on their shoulder. Yeah,

John Gifford:   43:10
when I introduced myself Sun Hi, my name's John. You know, if they introduce themselves, I'm like, they're gonna be kind of cool, But if they're just like, oh, nice to meet you. It's like, right, I'm not gonna have meaning Conversations with this person today. Yeah, it's a day at work.

John Michaels:   43:25
Well, that is one of the cool things about that studio is that it is everybody I've met. There has been totally down. There were three of

Dave Anderson:   43:31
my favorite story, and I mean, I've heard a 1,000,000 stories like We'll have it. This is a more recent one, and I can't remember if you were there yet. I think you were. You had to been. There was when police played at Bonnaroo and they came by.

John Gifford:   43:44
That was the summer before I started there.

Dave Anderson:   43:46
Yeah, and was it Andy Summers and staying

John Gifford:   43:49
You have? What happened was it was a James LeBlanc demo session. Trig Lee and Rick were in, like, the studio, and Mrs Hall was out front, and Andy and Sting come in, and they didn't actually like Sting that and say anything, cause if any, this is way Before documentary came out, this 2009 sores, there wasn't tours, really. I mean, they'd show like, a group of, like, 30 Belgian people around, but that was really about it then.

Dave Anderson:   44:17
But that smell great. So I go ahead.

John Gifford:   44:19
I like waffles. No joking. Yeah, but if someone has an accent, she'd usually at least like shows the time, talked to him for a little bit, but Andy walks up. It was like a You mind if we like, take a tour and look around it. It's a museum, right? It's like. No, it's a working studio in their session, but you can look at the pictures and he was like, There's still a working studio walked over to staying. It was like, Yeah, they're still working here things like, uh, they walked out the door, she went unknown. But the next day she opened up the newspaper and their picture was in the newspaper because they had been at Bonnaroo like the day before that. So I

Dave Anderson:   44:52
said, Oh, those

John Gifford:   44:52
are the guys that came to the studio. They have young gentleman. Yeah, Mrs Saw, That's great. I got a question for you. You'd mention like your dad played drums and then it's you. How was it having a son? Stone. He's getting into music.

Dave Anderson:   45:08
He's on a plane today on the White of Europe.

John Gifford:   45:10
That's also that

Dave Anderson:   45:11
it was really cool because he took a interest of music, really at a young age. But he he didn't want me to teach him very much, and there's sometimes Cat's in the cradle. I was going to teach him something happened, and I wasn't there, So I've got all the guilt issues that any musician parent has. You know, I've got all that. But, um, he really taught himself.

John Gifford:   45:31
Is there a part of you that was like, I'm excited. He's playing music. God, yes. But there's other part. It's like, How's he gonna feed himself both of those questions, you

Dave Anderson:   45:44
know, because I I I went for one year to you in a college, and I basically flunked out because my buddies that had moved away to South Carolina when I was in high school. We all went to you and A to form a band together. When we realized that's all we were doing, I ended up getting a gig Disneyworld a month after I flunked out of you and a So I dodged that bullet. All of a sudden I was doing great in my parents, but, you know, I was lucky. I'll say that I worked very hard for everything I've done. But I got some lucky breaks here and there, watching Stone learned. I mean, oh, there was never a question of his ability because he's got that thing. He's still got that thing, and he's got a personality that that's good, definitely smarter and wittier than me. He's good with that whole part of it. the hang, and he's a great musician, but I worry about making living at his age. I wasn't really making a living at. I was make a little bit more than because I just I had. There's a lot more gigging going around back in my and there wasn't as many bands playing that made us much money. It's more of 1/3 world country now. You make shit or you make a lot of money. There's not much in between, so he doesn't have the opportunity I had, but he I mean, he's to the thing with Rob. They're building that and in some good news lately, that's this building that further and the fact that somebody who knew somebody like this playing said come to this tour to Europe that he's doing right now. I'm like, Hell, yeah

John Gifford:   47:06
Did you give him any tips for going to Europe? Uh, what do you

John Michaels:   47:10
pass on to him that

Dave Anderson:   47:11
said, Just learn those songs, man.

John Gifford:   47:14
You know the song. Stay away from this country, but or this city, France, they're gonna hate you.

John Michaels:   47:23
So if you see red lights go the other way

Dave Anderson:   47:28
Yeah, I'm really happy for him and and the fact that that he's getting those kind of opportunities. I think it's this great. I hope that he is lucky enough as I've been to not have toe give it up. He's got day gigs that he does because again, there's not as much opportunities to make money doing it. He seems to a really great job of juggling that part of his life in the music part. It's fun to watch it, and it's so cool how many times people come up to being compliment him as a player in a person. My favorite thing ever happened recently because he's had issues with nepotism and his overthought so much. Oh, I'm David Anderson's son. What you know in the big picture doesn't mean shit. But around here locally, it does. And he's had problems with it. And

John Michaels:   48:11
does he feel like their shoes? He has to fill, Or

Dave Anderson:   48:14
I think so, and I never I don't think anybody else feels that way as much as he does. Especially I

John Michaels:   48:18
think that's the way it is with that.

Dave Anderson:   48:20
But what's awesome? And it happened just a couple months ago when I played it. Cypress Moon did a show for Tanya Holly. Hannah Aldridge was on the show. All the artists were planning our encore song we hadn't had a chance to meet, You know, I don't we don't know each other. She didn't know who I waas and somehow Stone came up and she said, You work with Stone Anderson and I said, That's my such as? No, really. And I said, Stone, Now I'm Stone Anderson's dad. I love it,

John Michaels:   48:51
Finally flipped. That's also speaking of of those kind of first thing. Did you go to your son's first show?

Dave Anderson:   48:58
I did. That was in Birmingham, and I have not gone to nearly as many of the shows as I should part of time because I'm gigging when he is

John Michaels:   49:05
right. And you know how cool is that, though?

Dave Anderson:   49:08
Something like 15 and it was in Birmingham and he he played with his body and we also recorded some of this stuff. Was it at the nick? No, it was It was like it was like this barbecue place, for they were having, like a high school age kids doing like a talent show thing. They're way better than all the other

John Michaels:   49:22
people. Was he better than you when you were in your talent show.

Dave Anderson:   49:25
Yeah, I was 1/5 grade.

John Michaels:   49:29
What about you? Job. Do you remember your first session? Your first riel session?

John Gifford:   49:33
Now, my first session was recording my own band and it was in college and as in this prog band for about four years. And the drummer was super Oh, CD, I mean to the point where it break like handles off like his doors of his cars from checking the logs with Super CD. Were in a band four years together. Never actually played a gig, But I got him to take his drum set out of his house. He was freaked out and everything was like, perfect Thoma Everything was just pristine. And the guitarist was helping him set up the rack or whatever and he goes to do a clamp. Well, the clamp broke and the drummer like mine, just like melted and he couldn't look. And then he started questioning everything about life. I mean, this is a dude that would, like, learn dream theater songs like for Beethoven. T Yeah, just He was such a good drummer. So we ended up having to scrap using his drum set because he was just too freaked out to use it after that, making a deal on the project? Because I could. Only because I was in the studio had no other drummers. You're

John Michaels:   50:41
doing a recording session for a college?

John Gifford:   50:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to use, like, Elektronik drums. At that point, I used to mix the professor didn't like the fact that I just said a stereo to mix of drums and not everything might. Wow. First, actual session I get paid to do was a demo session for Spooner old haps. It was like Spooner, David Hood. Kelvin, Holly. Just all think

Dave Anderson:   51:09
about trial by fire.

John Gifford:   51:11
Yeah, Yeah. These guys aren't like it's not like a bigger city where they have a 10 toward than they have to get across town for their like 2 to 5. It's like David Hood wants to take his poodles out on the bed.

John Michaels:   51:21
You just like yes, absolutely no problems.

John Gifford:   51:23
Just like yes are gonna start trying to start like, good. And they're like trying to tell me toe everything's cool. It's laid back, but I'm like, sweating bullets, and then we go, We have a meeting. Three place to buildings down Can we go over And we eat like, garden Gate And we're always tired and they sit there and have me cut the lights down And they want me to make some like, Wow, I'm having a mix a song Now I don't even know how to mix And I'm sitting here Tried I'm sweating bullets or look over there All passed out of control. Yeah, food. Covas said here like sweat bullets, Like, so worried that they're gonna hate it. All this I look over there are like,

Dave Anderson:   52:06
That's awesome, man. So they I'm sure

John Gifford:   52:09
they liked it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was demos. You know, I want to

John Michaels:   52:14
talk about my first, not my first mixing experience, but one of my first mixing experiences. This is the 1990 I think 90 91 somewhere in there, I was working for a local sound company and they had just given me, um I was under 18. I was 16. So they got one of the club owners to agree to let me work there. Underage. I was working my first. It was a club through the club. It was called the Unicorn in Milwaukee. Wisconsin. It's not there. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's basically somebody's basement. It was like the tip top, but with no windows. Right? Wow. So it was like that. And it was classically known for having a lot of punk, hardcore hard rock bands. You know, that kind of It was one of those clubs, you know, You didn't. You see it like a Bob Dylan Joni Mitchell type show? There was a lot of heavier bands, so that's where I cut my teeth. And luckily, a good friend of mine who will call Mr Magic just happened to record a lot of the shows in Milwaukee. The club shows he was a friend of mine, a radio deejay. And so I was actually able to go back, call him up and asking,

Dave Anderson:   53:23
Okay, Was a name that you just gave him or even

John Michaels:   53:25
I just knowing himself, just gave him that name. I don't want anybody to know who the guy is he if we and I'm sure I'll need him again. Hey, I need a copy of, you know, this band or whatever, and he'll give it to me. But he actually had this recording, and I couldn't believe it. This is from one of the first weeks that I was working there, and I just want to play just a little clip of this. You can hear this just terrible guitar solo from this ban that I did sound for here.

John Gifford:   54:11
This that sounds like somebody have heard

John Michaels:   54:13
that sounds like somebody's playing in a garage is what it sounds like, but just for

Dave Anderson:   54:18
But we are listening to it from your iPhone going through these headphones in this mike. So it's

John Michaels:   54:22
that's about the sound of it. It was recorded on a Walkman, you know, with the two microphones. It was a cassette tape, you know, so you could hear a little bit of the jump in there. But and I'm sitting there mixing this band or trying to do what I can do. Just thinking, man, these guys are just awful and probably never going to make it at all in this business. And, you know, you have to start somewhere sometime. And I learned a valuable lesson because let's just back that up to the end of that solo again and listen to who that actually was. Uh, you were no baby. So this is the story. I'm gonna cut this clip.

John Gifford:   55:06
A little side note we're talking about tone is in the fingertips. Earlier that bend he was doing in the solo I was like, Man, that sounds like

Dave Anderson:   55:14
I wasn't I wasn't saying who would sound like what I was thinking this borderlines moronic and cool, Right? Because there's this. There's an art to milk in those three notes like he was. So I was thinking, It's really not

John Michaels:   55:27
that What more clip This is the good of the the loudest, clean guitar tone that you've ever heard from alive. If you know the song, there's a clean guitar for about four or six bars or something in the first verse. So if you listen to the level between the distorted guitar, the clean guitar here you come in with a clean guitar here. This is the clean part, but it's like twice, but you'll hear it reduce here. Well, I think some

Dave Anderson:   56:11
of those 19 records were bad about that. When they hit the distortion pedal, it brought it down some.

John Michaels:   56:16
Yeah, yeah, why?

Dave Anderson:   56:17
So you got to tell more of that story about that, So that's

John Michaels:   56:20
OK. So obviously the band was not known as they were after the

Dave Anderson:   56:26
but if they're in Wisconsin, it has to be a butch big thing,

John Michaels:   56:28
right? So this is what happened was they were in Madison doing the demos for the never mind record, and they were just gonna play a couple shows to get some gas money to get back to Seattle. This happened to be one of those shows. It was a Sunday night and ah, I think if we ah, I can fast forward this clip. So this is them ending the song and you can hear the golf clap. This is a This is Travis. It's pretty cool. Pretty crazy. Right? So that was the end of the show. There was 20 or 30 people there on a Sunday night. I

John Gifford:   57:07
have to say, Love, Dave. Girl smears chest.

John Michaels:   57:11
There is no mike.

John Gifford:   57:14
It just sounds so good.

Dave Anderson:   57:16
I've got a good Butch vig store,

John Michaels:   57:17
which is a great guy. Just the interesting note. His band garbage has zero live microphones on this stage whatsoever, except for, uh, Shirley's vocal Mike. Is that the only thing? But anyway, these guys were They were doing the demos for that record and they were just playing a couple gigs to get home. And I think the club owner actually stiffed him on the money at the end of the night to Karen Tedx like 300. And he gave him 100 bucks,

Dave Anderson:   57:44
not knowing they were about to change rocket more

John Michaels:   57:47
body. You guys, you're not any good, you know that kind of thing. And it just warms my heart that Mr Magic happened to save that recording. And he's got others to this goal. Pearl Jam from that same club and Matthew Sweet and

Dave Anderson:   58:00
what they did, like re issues that he could hook them up with some stuff.

John Michaels:   58:04
Interestingly enough, he this one concert is been sought after by the Nirvana fan club. For some reason, it's like the Onley bootlegs show that they know exists, but they have. Nobody has a copy of it. So my buddy, Mr Magic, which is why I am not letting his name out, has just taken a starred stand and he says, No,

Dave Anderson:   58:25
that's mine. Oh, surely he everybody has a price.

John Michaels:   58:30
Well, they haven't met his yet. Well, the point of it is, we all have to start somewhere. And who knows what humble beginnings make of people. You know that. Did you

Dave Anderson:   58:41
have any when you saw them? Did you think they had the it factor?

John Michaels:   58:44
No. Because they were among a ton of other bands that were coming out of Minneapolis on amphetamine reptile, like the cows and the dwarves and the melons. And, you know, they all kind of had that sound at that time. Helmet was different, sounding back then and clutch and some other bands. So it was really hard to stand out amongst that. That group of people, I didn't find anything. Actually, I had taken more of an attraction to Pearl Jam at the time. Yeah. Then I did t Nirvana. And that was, you know, I was shunned because of that tape being the commercial guy, but yeah, you know it it just happens. We have to start somewhere. And you played a talent show. John did a recording at his house, and I ended up somehow being the house guy for a Nirvana show. And that's really awesome. We're still here 30 years from now, So yeah, I just wanted to thank you guys for ah, for helping make this happen and being on the first show.

Dave Anderson:   59:38
Much fun, much fine.

John Gifford:   59:40
I want to hear that story at the

John Michaels:   59:41
Let's Hear the Butch Vig story.

Dave Anderson:   59:43
We were in London. Every city has a rock n roll hotels, but the Kensington Hilton was a rock and roll hotel. I was there. We hung out with guys from the verb, just verve that happen to be there. Nobody had heard the garbage album yet, and it was garbage. His first concert was in London. I can't remember where it was, but they were staying our manager. And Damon. I've We're gonna go see garbage. The hype around the this band was humongous because it was Butch vig. First band. Um, we'd recorded it. Try clubs That hurt all the books fig stores from Jeff Tomei cause they did Siamese dream there. So, you know, he was kind of an iconic guy for us in the nineties. Find out we're staying in the same hotels them, but I didn't know. I see Shirley Manson. She's in line ahead of me at the front desk to do whatever we ask for, you know? Can I get a toothbrush or whatever? I thought she was like a groupie, and I kind of Ah, she caught me like looking at her and gave me this This really dirty look, we end up worse. State out in line for the show, waiting for and everybody's talking about. What's it gonna be like? It's gonna be as good as Nirvana. What's it gonna be like? Cause nobody heard it, right? Right. We went in there and saw garbage. Like you said there was daily mic on stage. Was was her Mike has had all the samplers.

John Michaels:   1:0:57
I'm sure it sounded on May

Dave Anderson:   1:0:59
Loops, and it was It was absolutely blew my freaking mind. And then later that night, our band was hanging out. Ben Hey, Linds, stage manager is a Brit guy. So he we all had our reunion and we're drinking in the hotel bar and they had allows Piano Guy That was everybody's lounges. You would think that he took a break. So I went over. You interjected over, interjecting myself to the piano, and because Timothy, my guitar tech, rest in peace. He said, I dare you to go play love boat. So I went and played love boat theme on the piano and went back and this guy came over and said, Butch Vig wants to talk to He loves

John Gifford:   1:1:37
your love, loved your love.

Dave Anderson:   1:1:40
And I went over and talked to him and the other two guys that because it's the three guys that were all producers and surely and, you know, had drinks with them for, you know, at least an hour hanging out. I think maybe at one point they might have wanted me to go away, but I might not have realized it. Yeah,

John Gifford:   1:1:57
who is this guy? He loves your love boat.

John Michaels:   1:2:01
What's really likes you love Boat. I mean, how do you know it's got to be presented in the right way?

Dave Anderson:   1:2:06
It was like I couldn't tell. I was sober enough to know that either it was complete irony or complete lack of irony. But either way, I was ironic. But he was just very seriously. But Butch Vig would like to talk to because he loved your your

John Michaels:   1:2:19
love Bob. Does anybody like your love boat? John?

John Gifford:   1:2:24
No, no, no. No one loves my,

John Michaels:   1:2:27
uh Well, I think we'll all have a lot more stories to tell about strange encounters and meeting people on the road and in weird places and different studios I that have a Jacob Dylan's story.

Dave Anderson:   1:2:42
Oh, yeah, I have to tell

John Michaels:   1:2:43
you sometime. It will save it for another time. There's so many others that need to be said and I think that we, you know, we haven't even touched not even two or three questions that I had pre made for this interview. So I think we have. But Dave, thank you for coming on. And thanks for having fun. It was fun to just sit and talk about normal stuff that people in our business do. The kids going on gigs, different kinds of situations that we've all been in and I've had to deal with. And hopefully people want to hear Ah, some more fun stories going forward. John, Thanks for coming down and making this happen with us. And totally, Totally. Yeah, hopefully you'll join us. Ah, for the next few that we do otherwise off to redo all the intros,

Dave Anderson:   1:3:30
Hose the hose, hose the show

John Michaels:   1:3:33
right to new hosers for the show. I mean, it's been a great time. I want to thank you guys for your time and sitting down and just talking about a bunch of nonsense that we would talk Teoh each other about backstage. Anyone? Yeah, we're out. See you next month.

Dave Anderson:   1:3:51
Anybody? This has been soft, fast. Take part in the conversation on Facebook. Search. Soft past podcast. Soft bass Thanks Blue microphones. Visit them at blue designs dot com. Be music by the sandy, honest man Join us again next episode for more behind the scenes stories and experiences of working professionals in the music industry.